How can the following verses be true if Calvinism is not wrong ?

[Leatherneck0311]

LOL...yes you do. Your hatred lies and misrepresentation clearly demonstrates that.

You are going on ignore for you’re deceived and clearly want others to join you in your deception. You don’t rely on nor use scripture as a foundation for your beliefs you’re following a man who contradicted scripture with man’s reasoning .

 

[CrowCross]

You are going on ignore for you’re deceived and clearly want others to join you in your deception. You don’t rely on nor use scripture as a foundation for your beliefs you’re following a man who contradicted scripture with man’s reasoning .

You are pushing satanic agendas...you have been exposed.

 

[Leatherneck0311]

You are pushing satanic agendas...you have been exposed.

Keep following Calvin I will stay with Jesus. You are on ignore I don’t debate with those who behave like petulant 5 year olds.

 

[CookedGoose]

You might agree with Jesus being the propitiation for the sins of the whole world but there is no “we” agree with that truth in Calvinism. I have personally debated with other Calvinist that told me the whole world doesn’t mean whole world and whole world only applies to the elect. Like I said I believe in scriptural election based on God’s foreknowledge not the unscriptural election calvinist believe. What exactly would the good news be if no one has a choice and were elected for hell ? What would you tell those people who were elected for hell is the “good news” ?

No one is elected to hell, that's called double predestination, and if a person believes that they're some kind of hyper-Calvinist. People end up in hell because of their own personal sin, which is the inevitable result from Adam breaking a covenant.

Secondly, we're not going to know who chooses to believe and who doesn't (for sure), but God does.

Thirdly, if you did know who they were for sure, you could tell them what Luke said here....

"Now when the Gentiles heard this they were glad and glorified the Lord, and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed."

It might work, it might not, but you probably won't know.

 

[Leatherneck0311]

No one is elected to hell, that's called double predestination, and if you believe that you're some kind of hyper-Calvinist. People end up in hell because of their own personal sin, which is the inevitable result from Adam breaking a covenant.

Secondly, we're not going to know who chooses to believe and who doesn't (for sure), but God does.

Thirdly, if you did know who they were for sure, you could tell them what Luke said here....

"Now when the Gentiles heard this they were glad and glorified the Lord, and as many as had been appointed to eternal life believed."

It might work, it might not, but you probably won't know.

I am sure you have read the Calvinist on this forum that believes that God is the author of sin do you agree with him that God is the author of sin ? How do you believe those that were appointed to eternal salvation were chosen ? Scripture teaches elect according to the foreknowledge of God. God knew what those chosen would choose.

 

[Simpletruther]

If you were elected before God created the heavens and earth what exactly did YOU believe ? So you're telling me before anyone was created some deserved grace and others deserved justice ? What did YOU do before YOU was born that you deserved grace ? The gospel has been neutered by Calvinism. Jesus nor the apostles put qualifiers on the gospel like Calvinist.

Nobody deserves grace. Strawman alert.

 

[Sketo]

If you were elected before God created the heavens and earth what exactly did YOU believe?

“The LORD has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble.” (Pro 16:4)

Your purpose was determined before you were made.

If God’s purpose, for you, included that you will believe the gospel at some point in the timeline of creation then God will accomplish his “purpose” by means of graciously gifting you the Storyline Level means that cause you to believe.

This is how God accomplishes his predetermined purpose for you after he makes you.

So you're telling me before anyone was created some deserved grace and others deserved justice?

God’s purpose for you is not based on weather you achieved something before you were made in order to “deserve” that purpose. This is illogical.

Election for a purpose has always been unconditional.

What did YOU do before YOU was born that you deserved grace?

What did you do after you were born to deserve Grace?

Grace can’t be earned before, or afteryou are made.

If it’s based on your merit it’s no longer Grace!

It’s a gift!

The gospel has been neutered by Calvinism. Jesus nor the apostles put qualifiers on the gospel like Calvinist.

Grace has been “neutered” by Leatherneck0311.

…

 

[Theo1689]

I have personally debated with other Calvinist that told me the whole world doesn’t mean whole world

Yeah, I tend to doubt that.
"Whole world means whole world" is a worthless tautology.
He probably said, "whole world doesn't mean every single individual", which is how non-Calvinists usually understand the phrase, and he would be right. No lexicon defines "kosmos" as "every single individual" universally.

and whole world only applies to the elect.

That would depend on the context, of course.
You don't seem to like discussing the CONTEXT, you only want to speak in general, hypothetical terms.

You are not interested in bonafide good-faith discussions, only in bashing and bad-mouthing and demonizing Calvinists.

Like I said I believe in scriptural election based on God’s foreknowledge

But you don't seem to understand what the means. You wish to FORCE a meaning of "to know about something in advance", when that is NOT what "foreknow" means in the original Greek. When the object of "foreknowing" (the verb, not the noun) is a person, the meaning is "choose in advance".

not the unscriptural election calvinist believe.

It's not "unscriptural".

What exactly would the good news be if no one has a choice and were elected for hell ? What would you tell those people who were elected for hell is the “good news” ?

If a down-on-their luck person was given a gift of a million dollars, that would CERTAINLY be "good news". The fact that YOU didn't get that gift not only doesn't take away from the fact that it's good news, but it seems INCREDIBLY selfish on your part. It's like you don't care about anyone but yourself.

And not only do we not KNOW who the "non-elect" are, so we can't isolate them to tell them a message, what you seem to be doing is defending sinners (who are not ENTITLED to salvation) against God. You are a God-hater, sir.

 

[Theo1689]

You are going on ignore for you’re deceived

Welcome to the club, CC!

 

[Theo1689]

You are going on ignore for you’re deceived and clearly want others to join you in your deception. You don’t rely on nor use scripture as a foundation for your beliefs you’re following a man who contradicted scripture with man’s reasoning .

One of the signs of a heretics is that they put everyone who disagrees with them and refutes them on "ignore", so they can continue their false claims and misrepresentations and never see the corrections.

 

[Theo1689]

Keep following Calvin I will stay with Jesus.

We don't "follow Calvin".
We follow Jesus.

You are on ignore I don’t debate with those who behave like petulant 5 year olds.

So you don't debate yourself?!
How does that work, exactly?

 

[CookedGoose]

I am sure you have read the Calvinist on this forum that believes that God is the author of sin do you agree with him that God is the author of sin ?

God is the author of a covenant, that covenant was broken. God was then the author of a resulting curse which "fell" the "whole world" into sin.
Is this what you mean by author of sin?

How do you believe those that were appointed to eternal salvation were chosen ?

According to God's good pleasure......Although I believe you're going to call it a "lottery." You're not the first to refer to it this way.

Scripture teaches elect according to the foreknowledge of God. God knew what those chosen would choose.

Correct, in fact He still knows (present tense). Scripture also says Adam "knew" Eve and she bore children, so we're going to need a biblical definition of foreknowledge.

 

[Theo1689]

I am sure you have read the Calvinist on this forum that believes that God is the author of sin do you agree with him that God is the author of sin ?

Where does the phrase, "author of sin" appear in Scripture?
And what do you do with Gen. 50:20, Isa. 10:5-7, and Acts 4:27-28 (other than ignore/reject them)?

How do you believe those that were appointed to eternal salvation were chosen ?

Eph. 1:4 even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,

Scripture teaches elect according to the foreknowledge of God. God knew what those chosen would choose.

No, Scripture NEVER teaches that "God chooses the elect based on knowing in advance who would choose Him". That's an unsubstantiated ASSUMPTION on your part, based on your misunderstanding of what "proginosko" ("foreknow") means.

 

[Leatherneck0311]

Nobody deserves grace. Strawman alert.

Deserved was a poor choice of words how about eternally condemned had Jesus not provided grace, but I believe you already knew.

 

[Leatherneck0311]

God is the author of a covenant, that covenant was broken. God was then the author of a resulting curse which "fell" the "whole world" into sin.
Is this what you mean by author of sin?

According to God's good pleasure......Although I believe you're going to call it a "lottery." You're not the first to refer to it this way.

Correct, in fact He still knows (present tense). Scripture also says Adam "knew" Eve and she bore children, so we're going to need a biblical definition of foreknowledge.

Foreknow how’s that ?

 

[Leatherneck0311]

God is the author of a covenant, that covenant was broken. God was then the author of a resulting curse which "fell" the "whole world" into sin.
Is this what you mean by author of sin?

According to God's good pleasure......Although I believe you're going to call it a "lottery." You're not the first to refer to it this way.

Correct, in fact He still knows (present tense). Scripture also says Adam "knew" Eve and she bore children, so we're going to need a biblical definition of foreknowledge.

That is nothing more than bringing God down to man’s level and making excuses for God being less than Holy..Did God break the covenant or Adam ? Author of sin makes God a sinner and is an eternally dangerous position to believe.

 

[Theo1689]

Foreknow how’s that ?

Apparently you don't understanding the meaning of the (Greek) term:


BDAG:

προγινώσκω
1. to know beforehand or in advance, have foreknowledge (of) τί someth. Closely connected is the idea of choice that suggests foreknowledge
2. choose beforehand τινά someone Ro 8:29. τὸν λαὸν αὐτοῦ 11:2 , 1 Pt 1:20.

This is comprehensive, but very straightforward. When the object of the foreknowing is a thing, it means "know beforehand". But when the object is a person, its meaning is "choose beforehand".

πρόγνωσις, εως, ἡ
1. foreknowledge πρ. λαμβάνειν τελείαν receive complete foreknowledge 1 Cl 44:2.
2. predetermination, of God’s omniscient wisdom and intention



Mounce Greek Dictionary:

προγινώσκω proginōskō 5x
to know beforehand, to be previously acquainted with, Acts 26:5; 2 Pet. 3:17; to determine on beforehand, to foreordain, 1 Pet. 1:20; in NT, from the Hebrew, to foreknow, to appoint as the subject of future privileges, Rom. 8:29; 11:2* → foreknow, foreknowledge.

πρόγνωσις prognōsis 2x
foreknowledge; in NT previous determination, purpose, Acts 2:23; 1 Pet. 1:2* → foreknow, foreknowledge.



UBS Lexicon:

προγινώσκω (aor. προέγνων) know already, know beforehand; choose from the beginning, choose beforehand

πρόγνωσις, εως f foreknowledge, purpose

 

[CrowCross]

Keep following Calvin I will stay with Jesus. You are on ignore I don’t debate with those who behave like petulant 5 year olds.

You have been responding to a whole bunch of petulant 5 year olds who understand calvinism and agree with all or some of his tenants...AND THEY HAVE BEEN TELLING YOU THAT YOU ARE MISREPRESENTING CALVINISM.

But despite that, you act like a petulant 5 year old and continue to fail to understand what Calvin is saying. Instead you use your satanic techniques to vilify what the Bible has to say on the topic.

 

[CookedGoose]

That is nothing more than bringing God down to man’s level and making excuses for God being less than Holy.

How so? Are you saying God is a "push-over" cause people like Adam stomp on His covenants?

.Did God break the covenant or Adam ?

According to Genesis 3 Adam/Eve broke the covenant.

Author of sin makes God a sinner and is an eternally dangerous position to believe.

I still don't know (and don't know if you know) what is meant by "author of sin."

 

[Simpletruther]

Deserved was a poor choice of words how about eternally condemned had Jesus not provided grace, but I believe you already knew.

Which is true of everyone.