How do you view faith?

Can you show me a sample of gravity? So without tangible methods of observation re the human eye, we use other tools. These tools have lead to speculations regarding Dark Matter and Energy. I'm not aware of science going beyond that point and stating dark matter/energy are anything other than a place holder until better evidence becomes available.
Drops a quarter. It shows gravity at work. So in my original post it says this.

"Faith, on the other hand, is an unreserved opening of the mind to the truth, whatever it may turn out to be. Faith has no preconceptions; it is a plunge into the unknown. Belief clings, but faith lets go. In this sense of the word, faith is the essential virtue of science, and likewise of any religion that is not self-deception"
 
Drops a quarter. It shows gravity at work. So in my original post it says this.

"Faith, on the other hand, is an unreserved opening of the mind to the truth, whatever it may turn out to be. Faith has no preconceptions; it is a plunge into the unknown. Belief clings, but faith lets go. In this sense of the word, faith is the essential virtue of science, and likewise of any religion that is not self-deception"

Ironically, you seem to be clinging to the belief that "belief clings, but faith lets go." You cling to it so hard that you have named yourself after that belief.

Mere mental beliefs may be clung to, but you cannot let go to anything other than a person. A belief will not catch you if you fall, not even a belief that "belief clings, but faith lets go."
 
Observation of the world in our time not actually being present at the time, if you understand science,
If you understood science then you would know none of your old earth mandates were ever observed. Nor do you produce evidence of any of the ancients attesting to billions of yrs earth and sun even older. it is all speculation based on fixed start points. Bible as faction and common descent as a given. It is not detached but front-loaded with bias.
the you should know the the first step is observing. Re the Global flood, there is no evidence that it occurred, zero!
Evidence was provided and ignored.
There is mountains of evidence of old earth.
Yawn. Where does all the energy come from to run a sun for billions of yrs? If it is two models then it would take a lot less energy to run a sun for thousands than it would to run multiple billions yr old sun.
Opinion does not equal fact since they are written as history, not stories. If you believe the writer was writing fiction then from the account make your case. Obviously you do not know what you are talking about since you cannot deduce a fiction account from an actual historical claims account. It is obvious the mind of the writer was to convey history to us from across times and cultures. You present not one bit of evidence to support your conclusion the writer was writing fiction. (stories) It is obvious the writer believed the Noah flood was actual history.
(from your link) are the beginnings of the investigation process, not the conclusion.
What do you mean beginning? It is multiple compiled accounts of the flood later corroborated by writers who took the flood as actual history. That is all called evidence and it all is ignored because it is not construed as the right kind. We all know why all that evidence is ignored and that is because it does not fit your old earth dogmatics. None of it has to do with actual investigation or science. it has to do with bias and fails under cross-examination. You can believe what you want including mystery ape/human common ancestors that never existed any more than pink fairies in the pumpkin patch.
Now that is garbage. Burial in a global flood will not sort the life forms we find into very specific strata, it would be all mixed up. A simple experiment using a fish tank will prove it every time.
Fact being the remains were preserved and a flood explains where you offer zero explanation for their preservation. If they were millions of yrs old they would not be there and there would be no soft tissue. More evidence you ignore because it does not support your old earth delusions.
I believe it because of the evidence.
No you do not. You believe it for the same reasons cultists believed the end of the earth via the hail Bopp comet.
If the Bible never existed
La La Land. The Bible does exist. If monkeys never existed....... The only thing that never existed is your ape/human common ancestor identity unknown.
do you think the current evidence would indicate a global flood?
The bible is not the only source for the flood. The bible does exist, is written to convey the history, and attests to a global flood. multiple compiled accounts treat Noah and the flood as history. All called evidence.
Sure there is, just look at all the various forms of dating the rocks
All of that is calibrated for an old earth. Its start point is old earth. So get out of town. it is not objective or detached. It is mostly crap. There is all kinds of front-loaded assumptions with dating rocks. None of them can be fact-checked against what actually happened.
 
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Ironically, you seem to be clinging to the belief that "belief clings, but faith lets go." You cling to it so hard that you have named yourself after that belief.

Mere mental beliefs may be clung to, but you cannot let go to anything other than a person. A belief will not catch you if you fall, not even a belief that "belief clings, but faith lets go."
I have faith that belief clings and faith let's go. I am attempting to rid myself of all beliefs and simply walk.
 
I have faith that belief clings and faith let's go. I am attempting to rid myself of all beliefs and simply walk.

So you're attempting to rid yourself of your belief that you should rid yourself of your belief that you should rid yourself of your belief that .............?

Good luck with that.
 
As an example, everyone on a plane trust the pilot will get them to the end safely, in spite of turbulence and other problems that come up, and with no guarantee that the plane will land safely. Everyone on that plane, regardless of religious belief or unbelief, is exercising faith.
 
As an example, everyone on a plane trust the pilot will get them to the end safely, in spite of turbulence and other problems that come up, and with no guarantee that the plane will land safely. Everyone on that plane, regardless of religious belief or unbelief, is exercising faith.
It's tough to split hairs on definitions of words once the culture gets at them and uses them in differing ways for centuries - so mine is a personal view on the words, belief, and faith. I would say that what you are describing regarding the plane above is founded belief, not faith. We carry a warranted bias on a plane given our historical knowledge and personal 1st and 2nd person experiences and track record with actual plane flight. This is not a phenomenon we need to trust to the reports of an ancient past. We actually live and experience a world with witnessed plane flight. We however do not live in a world of witnessed resurrections and vicarious redemption. To my definitions it is not possible to have a belief in those things, only faith - planes you can actually believe in based on experience.

When someone says they "believe" in Jesus, to my definitions that that is not true. Given that most experiences with Jesus today are based on internal emotional and mental states, not an actual experience of him in the world at large, I would claim they have faith in Jesus, but they believe that their car will start. Here's the thing, the faithful can possess a faith as powerful to them as their beliefs, but still shouldn't muddle the definitions and the criteria behind each term.
 
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It's tough to split hairs on definitions of words once the culture gets at them and uses them in differing ways for centuries - so mine is a personal view on the words, belief, and faith. I would say that what you are describing regarding the plane above is founded belief, not faith. We carry a warranted bias on a plane given our historical knowledge and personal 1st and 2nd person experiences and track record with actual plane flight. This is not a phenomenon we need to trust to the reports of an ancient past. We actually live and experience a world with witnessed plane flight. We however do not live in a world of witnessed resurrections and vicarious redemption. To my definitions it is not possible to have a belief in those things, only faith - planes you can actually believe in based on experience.

When someone says they "believe" in Jesus, to my definitions that that is not true. Given that most experiences with Jesus today are based on internal emotional and mental states, not an actual experience of him in the world at large, I would claim they have faith in Jesus, but they believe that their car will start. Here's the thing, the faithful can possess a faith as powerful to them as their beliefs, but still shouldn't muddle the definitions and the criteria behind each term.

It's an act of commitment no matter what you call it. Same concept whether the object of faith is God, the pilot, the spouse you will marry, the mayor you are voting for, or the doctor removing your tumor.
 
It's an act of commitment no matter what you call it. Same concept whether the object of faith is God, the pilot, the spouse you will marry, the mayor you are voting for, or the doctor removing your tumor.
Agreed. That's a good common term: an act of commitment. Question is what warrant does one have to commit to something?
 
Agreed. That's a good common term: an act of commitment. Question is what warrant does one have to commit to something?
Same process as when making other non-trivial decisions. Careful consideration, consultation with others, etc.
 
Drops a quarter. It shows gravity at work.
Well it shows something at work, (gravity is just a name), but what actually is it? We can describe phenomena very well, it has nothing to do with faith.

"So in my original post it says this. Faith, on the other hand, is an unreserved opening of the mind to the truth, whatever it may turn out to be.
That is not faith, having an open mind is having an open mind. Accepting whatever the truth may be requires honest acceptance of the evidence and not holding on to preconceptions.

Faith has no preconceptions; it is a plunge into the unknown.
No this is just a made up definition. Faith is accepting something without proof.

Belief clings, but faith lets go. In this sense of the word, faith is the essential virtue of science, and likewise of any religion that is not self-deception"
Again no. You can believe something if you accept the evidence presented to you (which can be good or bad) your belief could be true or false.
 
Well it shows something at work, (gravity is just a name), but what actually is it? We can describe phenomena very well, it has nothing to do with faith.


That is not faith, having an open mind is having an open mind. Accepting whatever the truth may be requires honest acceptance of the evidence and not holding on to preconceptions.


No this is just a made up definition. Faith is accepting something without proof.


Again no. You can believe something if you accept the evidence presented to you (which can be good or bad) your belief could be true or false.
I appreciate your opinion.
 
If you understood science then you would know none of your old earth mandates were ever observed. Nor do you produce evidence of any of the ancients attesting to billions of yrs earth and sun even older. it is all speculation based on fixed start points. Bible as faction and common descent as a given. It is not detached but front-loaded with bias.
You don't have to to have lived in the past to deduce the past, that's a ridiculous argument. The rest of your paragraph is nonsensical.

Evidence was provided and ignored.
No you made claims, and failed to provide evidence.

Yawn. Where does all the energy come from to run a sun for billions of yrs? If it is two models then it would take a lot less energy to run a sun for thousands than it would to run multiple billions yr old sun.
Gobbledygook. You're not making any sense at all.

Opinion does not equal fact since they are written as history, not stories. If you believe the writer was writing fiction then from the account make your case. Obviously you do not know what you are talking about since you cannot deduce a fiction account from an actual historical claims account. It is obvious the mind of the writer was to convey history to us from across times and cultures. You present not one bit of evidence to support your conclusion the writer was writing fiction. (stories) It is obvious the writer believed the Noah flood was actual history.
So bring on the evidence that it's history and not a 'story'. But you just saying so is not convincing.

What do you mean beginning? It is multiple compiled accounts of the flood later corroborated by writers who took the flood as actual history. That is all called evidence and it all is ignored because it is not construed as the right kind. We all know why all that evidence is ignored and that is because it does not fit your old earth dogmatics. None of it has to do with actual investigation or science. it has to do with bias and fails under cross-examination. You can believe what you want including mystery ape/human common ancestors that never existed any more than pink fairies in the pumpkin patch.
If a global food happened there would be physical evidence, there is non. Every geological strata attests to an old earth, as I showed with the table.

Fact being the remains were preserved and a flood explains where you offer zero explanation for their preservation. If they were millions of yrs old they would not be there and there would be no soft tissue. More evidence you ignore because it does not support your old earth delusions.
Oh boy read a book on fossilisation, you're just being delusional at this point.

No you do not. You believe it for the same reasons cultists believed the end of the earth via the hail Bopp comet.
Wrong the evidence is sound. Lets see you refute the geological column I provided.

La La Land. The Bible does exist. If monkeys never existed....... The only thing that never existed is your ape/human common ancestor identity unknown.
The evidence says otherwise. Not having the precise ancestral lineage does not prevent us understand the broader picture. I assume you had a Great, Great, Great grandmother right, and if you don't know her maiden name that mean she don't exist by your logic.

The bible is not the only source for the flood. The bible does exist, is written to convey the history, and attests to a global flood. multiple compiled accounts treat Noah and the flood as history. All called evidence.
But its not history, geography (and other methods) refutes it.

All of that is calibrated for an old earth. Its start point is old earth. So get out of town. it is not objective or detached. It is mostly crap. There is all kinds of front-loaded assumptions with dating rocks. None of them can be fact-checked against what actually happened.
No its base entirely on what is found in the layers, show me how a global flood can sort fossils in such an order, if you can't (and I guarantee you can't) your just plain wrong.
 
No, but you're using definitions that are not in use to make your argument. If we all stick to the same definitions then there will be less confusion for everyone involved.
I was asking people to describe how they viewed faith.

I then added a second post stating that I wanted people to provide their own personal perspective on what faith is.

My relative silence since then has been due to my having been really sick, and feeling really poorly for the past week.
 
Same process as when making other non-trivial decisions. Careful consideration, consultation with others, etc.
I agree with the careful consideration, but the consulting of others, etc.. is just data gathering. So what was your personal careful consideration in accepting the Christian doctrine once you gathered the data? Is faith always "careful"?
 
Definitions change. The post is titled How do you view faith. I shared my view.
Provided there is agreement on a definition, sure, but when you just assume a definition, then, no. Sharing a POV is ok, but this is a forum where views are challenged, assumptions questioned, right? else we're just preaching.
 
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