Bob Dobbalina
Active member
Tradition says 3, but tradition is more often wrong than right. What say you?
How many crosses were there on Calvary?
- Thread starter Bob Dobbalina
- Start date
Five..
Bob Dobbalina
Active member
That is my understanding; I read a very persuasive treatise on the subject but can't find it now. How did you arrive at this insight?
Sorry, stuff to do at the moment. I will respond later... If I forget, ping me.
http://www.absolutebiblestudy.com/Study/The_Four_Crucified_With_Christ.htm
https://spiritandtruthonline.org/how-many-were-crucified-with-jesus/
There is also a video on Youtube. I don't think we're allowed to post videos here, but the video ID is Jyysnj3ekIY.
https://wwwdotyoutubedotcom/watch?v=Jyysnj3ekIY
Replace the "dot"s with . and you'll see it
CharismaticLady
Well-known member
This time tradition is right. 3 crosses
Matthew 26:38 Then two robbers were crucified with Him, one on the right and another on the left.
Mark 15:With Him they also crucified two robbers, one on His right and the other on His left.
Luke 23:32 There were also two others, criminals, led with Him to be put to death. 33 And when they had come to the place called Calvary, there they crucified Him, and the criminals, one on the right hand and the other on the left.
Did you read either of the articles I linked to? Or watch the video?
Bob Dobbalina
Active member
She obviously didn’t and likely won’t.
Tradition is a helluva drug.
Bob Dobbalina
Active member
Thank you.
Total garbage.
Thanks for the in-depth analysis and rebuttal.
CharismaticLady
Well-known member
No. All the accounts in Scripture are fine with me.
How to demonstrate to everyone that you have no clue as to how to understand the bible.
Hawkeye
Well-known member
The thing that has always been a question to me is the fact that thieves were crucified after the soldiers parted the garments:
[Matthew 27:35] And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots. And sitting down they watched him there; And set up over his head his accusation written, THIS IS JESUS THE KING OF THE JEWS. Then were there two "thieves" crucified with him, one on the right hand, and another on the left.
But Luke says this:
[Luke 23:33 And when they were come to the place, which is called Calvary, there they crucified him, and the "malefactors", one on the right hand, and the other on the left. Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.
The thieves are crucified after they part the garments and the malefactors are crucified before the garments are parted.
You find many ancient Christian artifacts showing five crosses......one large in the center with two smaller on each side. This is called the "Jerusalem Cross" and if you read the explanations given for this symbolism it is actually quite comical how folks have come up with such inane ideas in an attempt to explain it away.
To say there were indeed five crosses is to agree with the scriptures and forgo tradition.
Bob Dobbalina
Active member
To those here who adhere to tradition, how do you explain the distinctions between Matthew’s account and that of Luke, as recounted in Hawkeye’s post #15?
Hawkeye
Well-known member
[Colossians 2:8] Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.
The problem with tradition is subtle. It's generally based upon what others think and usually learned from childhood. This makes it comfortable so it's rare when an investigation probes the particulars.....and usually others will cast aspersions on those seeking to verify.
[Ezekiel 12:2] Son of man, thou dwellest in the midst of a rebellious house, which have eyes to see, and see not; they have ears to hear, and hear not: for they are a rebellious house.
Yahweh exhorts us to move from our comfortable position of tradition and follow His prompting:
[Acts 17:10-11] And the brethren immediately sent away Paul and Silas by night unto Berea: who coming thither went into the synagogue of the Jews. These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
It is not wrong to "search the scriptures for clarification". We can choose to follow Yahweh or continue with our "Worldly" endeavors.
As in this case the five crosses on Golgotha are hard to deny when scripture is evaluated and the original language is consulted.....but folks are comfortable in their tradition so many will ignore the evidence and continue to be misled. Others will consider the facts as presented.....knowing this is not a "Salvific" issue but one of accuracy.
The Greek word τότε in Matt 27:38, which Hawkeye translates as "then" actually means "concomitantly" or "at that time." "Then" is non-contextual in Matt 27:38: so there is no inference in Matthew that the thieves were crucified after the lots had been cast for garments.
Similarly in Luke, there is very little indication of time. There is a weak connecting Greek particle δὲ in Luke 23:34, that suggests "then" or "and".
That is to say, there is not nearly enough divergence in the Greek to raise the inference of a conflict between the Luke and Matthew accounts, or that more than two criminals were being crucified with Jesus.
Hawkeye
Well-known member
Correction: Hawkeye didn't translate this verse. It was the King James Bible translators who did.
KJV [Matthew 27:38] Then were there two thieves crucified with him, one on the right hand, and another on the left.
The preeminent Hebrew/Greek Scholar of the nineteenth century.....Robert Young also translates thus:
YLT [Matthew 27:38] Then crucified with him are two robbers, one on the right hand, and one on the left,
There's also John 19:18
KJV Where they crucified him, and two other with him, on either side one, and Jesus in the midst.
The word "one" is in italics, meaning it was added by the translators.