Jesus pierced, YHWH pierced.

Runningman said:
Isaiah 7
14Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call Him Immanuel. 15By the time He knows enough to reject evil and choose good, He will be eating curds and honey. 16For before the boy knows enough to reject evil and choose good, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste.

It says before. No matter how you want to twist it, as long as the land of the two kings was laid waste before Immanuel knew enough to reject evil and choose good, then it's valid. As I proved 2 Kings 15:29-30 and 2 Kings 16:9, it's valid.

You would also have throw out the plain words of Isaiah referring to Immanuel, basic English grammar, and the record in 2 Kings 15-16 to believe otherwise.

While Jesus is God's begotten Son, holy, perfect, and blameless, he isn't God. Perhaps you're slowly beginning to accept that. My honest recommendation for you is to forget just about everything you thought you knew and start over. Do you have the courage to do so?
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You need to tell us when you're giving an "honest recommendation"? What's everything else you recommend?

You're at it again posting verses that show Jesus was a genuine man. How does that disprove He isn't also God? Your limiting God. Muslims do this to a greater degree by denying that God could have a Son. You're half-way from doubt, but just need to accept Him entirely and not try to put your limitations on God.

What do you have to say to MICAH 5:2?
 
Andreas said:
You need to tell us when you're giving an "honest recommendation"? What's everything else you recommend?

You're at it again posting verses that show Jesus was a genuine man. How does that disprove He isn't also God? Your limiting God. Muslims do this to a greater degree by denying that God could have a Son. You're half-way from doubt, but just need to accept Him entirely and not try to put your limitations on God.

What do you have to say to MICAH 5:2?
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Are you not also limiting God by calling Him "fully man"?????
 
Photine said:
Are you not also limiting God by calling Him "fully man"?????
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No, because he is fully God. He didn't become God and he is not a junior demigod, but Almighty God, the I AM, the First and the Last. The two natures were not confused or hybrid. You are thinking too much like a Trinitarian, though you are not one you still have some philosophical hooks from it because it is a pernicious doctrine. The Bible says that he is God and he is man. Any attempt to minimize or chip away at either his deity or his humanity is in error.
 
Andreas said:
The Bible says that he is God and he is man. Any attempt to minimize or chip away at either his deity or his humanity is in error.
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No the Bible says God is NOT a man.

You keep trying to limit God to being something He is not.

Hosea 11:9
I will not carry out my fierce anger,
nor will I devastate Ephraim again.
For I am God, and not a man—
the Holy One among you.
I will not come against their cities.

Zechariah 2:5
And I will be to her a wall of fire all around, declares the LORD, and I will be the glory in her midst.

Ephesians 3:17
That Christ may make His home in your hearts through faith.

Colossians 1:27
To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

There is not a FULLY MAN Jesus in our midst.

Here is your man who lives in you:

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4
3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
 
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Runningman said:
The Bible says otherwise.

Isaiah 7
14Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call Him Immanuel. 15By the time He knows enough to reject evil and choose good, He will be eating curds and honey. 16For before the boy knows enough to reject evil and choose good, the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste.

2 Samuel 7
14I will be his Father, and he will be My son. When he does wrong, I will discipline him with the rod of men and with the blows of the sons of men.

That denial and avoidance you're experiencing, don't let it blind you. Remember a time when you were open to everything the Bible said. You may be 80 years old, but you missed the truth. Now I am showing you the reality. You're going to need to truly understand who Jesus is and I am literally laying it all out in front of you Johnny. However, I am almost done working with you.
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Isaiah 7:15; 2 Samuel 7:14b. are UNRELATED to Jesus Christ, The Son of God.
 
Photine said:
No the Bible says God is NOT a man.

You keep trying to limit God to being something He is not.

Hosea 11:9
I will not carry out my fierce anger,
nor will I devastate Ephraim again.
For I am God, and not a man—
the Holy One among you.
I will not come against their cities.

Zechariah 2:5
And I will be to her a wall of fire all around, declares the LORD, and I will be the glory in her midst.

Ephesians 3:17
That Christ may make His home in your hearts through faith.

Colossians 1:27
To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

There is not a FULLY MAN Jesus in our midst.

Here is your man who lives in you:

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4
3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
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There IS Jesus, who is fully MAN, at the right hand of The Father.
 
johnny guitar said:
There IS Jesus, who is fully MAN, at the right hand of The Father.
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Jesus lives in us.

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

2 Corinthians 13:3
since you are demanding proof that Christ is speaking through me. He is not weak in dealing with you, but is powerful among you.

Hosea 11:9
I will not carry out my fierce anger,
nor will I devastate Ephraim again.
For I am God, and not a man—
the Holy One among you.
I will not come against their cities.

You also believe in a false Jesus.
 
Photine said:
No the Bible says God is NOT a man.

You keep trying to limit God to being something He is not.

Hosea 11:9
I will not carry out my fierce anger,
nor will I devastate Ephraim again.
For I am God, and not a man—
the Holy One among you.
I will not come against their cities.

Zechariah 2:5
And I will be to her a wall of fire all around, declares the LORD, and I will be the glory in her midst.

Ephesians 3:17
That Christ may make His home in your hearts through faith.

Colossians 1:27
To them God has chosen to make known among the Gentiles the glorious riches of this mystery, which is Christ in you, the hope of glory.

There is not a FULLY MAN Jesus in our midst.

Here is your man who lives in you:

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4
3 Don’t let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. 4 He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.
Click to expand...


Like I keep telling the runningman, except opposite. Jesus was BOTH God and man. The scriptures you post about Jesus being God and the Holy Spirit, I post too to teach he is God!


You guys seem to be stuck on Jesus can only be one or the other nature and you're talking past each other. But, are you sure you want to deny Christ's humanity?
 
Photine said:
Now it's "was a man", I have no problem with that. Jesus was also sin.
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I edited that out for clarity after you responded. He was a man and He IS forever a man.

It really is quite amazing that you deny this. I mean the bible says he is a man and uses that word M - A - N. You deny this?
 
Andreas said:
I edited that out for clarity after you responded. He was a man and He IS forever a man.

It really is quite amazing that you deny this. I mean the bible says he is a man and uses that word M - A - N.
Click to expand...

Okay riddle me this, is Jesus the Holy Spirit? Yes or no.
 
Runningman said:
Isaiah 7
14Therefore the Lord Himself will give you a sign: Behold, the virgin will be with child and will give birth to a son, and will call Him Immanuel. 15By the time He knows enough to reject evil and choose good, He will be eating curds and honey. 16For before the boy knows enough to reject evil and choose good,
the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste.
Click to expand...

It says before. No matter how you want to twist it, as long as the land of the two kings was laid waste before Immanuel knew enough to reject evil and choose good, then it's valid. As I proved 2 Kings 15:29-30 and 2 Kings 16:9, it's valid.

You would also have throw out the plain words of Isaiah referring to Immanuel, basic English grammar, and the record in 2 Kings 15-16 to believe otherwise.

While Jesus is God's begotten Son, holy, perfect, and blameless, he isn't God. Perhaps you're slowly beginning to accept that. My honest recommendation for you is to forget just about everything you thought you knew and start over. Do you have the courage to do so?
Click to expand...
There’s an old saying. When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging. It’s obvious you made it up and you continue to make it up.
Reading comprehension, 101
Follow the narrative in the chapter.
The reason why the boy eats curds and honey is because the land was late to waste.
The land was laid to waste because it was invaded 2Kings 16.
The invaders killed 120k men in one day 2.Chron. 28:5
Took 200k captive 2Chron 28:8


the land of the two kings you dread will be laid waste.
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Click to expand...
Expounded on in Isa 8:2

It was Fulfilled 2 kings 15: 29 In the days of Pekah king of Israel, [a]Tiglath-Pileser king of Assyria came and took Ijon, Abel Beth Maachah, Janoah, Kedesh, Hazor, Gilead, and Galilee, all the land of Naphtali; and he carried them captive to Assyria.

It’s all interconnected, it is chronological order. Before the child knows to reject evil and choose good God will punish Israel and the Syrian’s by sending the Assyrians. One of the requirements that has to take place for this all to happen is that the child must eat curds and honey.
And the reason why the population is eating curds and honey is because the land was late to waste.
You’re invented fairytale does not fit the narrative whatsoever. The idea that Isaiah. 7:15-16 ascribe in any form to Emmanuel in verse 14 is not supported by the immediate text or supportive text or the Bible as a whole.
I suggest you put the shovel down.
 
Photine said:
Jesus lives in us.

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

2 Corinthians 13:3
since you are demanding proof that Christ is speaking through me. He is not weak in dealing with you, but is powerful among you.

Hosea 11:9
I will not carry out my fierce anger,
nor will I devastate Ephraim again.
For I am God, and not a man—
the Holy One among you.
I will not come against their cities.

You also believe in a false Jesus.
Click to expand...
Jesus Christ: MAN forevermore.
 
Greetings again Andreas,
Andreas said:
"I will be" doesn't express the Hebrew or the LXX fully. The concept is the Lord which is, which was, and which is to come, the Almighty (Rev 1:8) "I will be" is not horrible, but doesn't get the past and present sense well.
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The Hebrew tense is the imperfect and is best translated into English with the future tense as per Tyndale and the RV and RSV margins:
Exodus 3:12-14 (Tyndale): 12 And he sayde: I wilbe with the. And this shalbe a token vnto the that I haue sent the: after that thou hast broughte the people out of Egipte, ye shall serue God vppon this mountayne. 13 Than sayde Moses vnto God: when I come vnto the childern of Israell and saye vnto them, the God of youre fathers hath sent me vnto you, ad they saye vnto me, what ys his name, what answere shall I geuethem? 14 Then sayde God vnto Moses: I wilbe what I wilbe: ad he sayde, this shalt thou saye vnto the children of Israel: I wilbe dyd send me to you.
You are transferring and superimposing Revelation 1:8 on top of Exodus 3:14 and this concept is not in Exodus 3:14.
Andreas said:
EGO EIMI in Exodus 3 is in LXX. That Jesus says EGO EIMI in John 8:58 is in present tense after He says "Before Abraham was (past tense)".
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Yes, but Jesus is not quoting the LXX as the LXX does not have "I AM", but has "I am THE BEING" and "THE BEING".
Exodus 3:14 (LXX): And God spoke to Moses, saying, I am THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you.
This is considered a poor or wrong translation of the Hebrew into Greek, and we have no English translation of Exodus 3:14 from the Hebrew that in any way matches the LXX.
Andreas said:
The Jews took him to mean that he was older than Abraham and they tried to kill him. You really don't have a substantial explanation as to how Jesus could be before Abraham. EGO EIMI means a real existence before Abraham.
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Jesus was claiming that he was in the plan and purpose of God before the appearance of Abraham, such as Genesis 3:15. The Jews deliberately muddied the waters in order to stir up the crowd. Could you please answer as to when Abraham rejoiced to see the day of Jesus and was glad?
John 8:56 (KJV): Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad.
Andreas said:
The thing about all this back and forth is that you really have to ask yourself why your theory requires so much effort to say, "no it doesn't mean this and this, but let me tell you what it really means" sort of talk. A good doctrine should fit well and flow right out of the text. The Apostles were not a bunch of dummies that didn't know how to express the words of Christ clearly. They were monotheistic Jews and they would stay a million miles away from writing anything that could confuse someone that Jesus was God unless He really was.
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The Apostles wrote accurately under inspiration and recorded what Jesus stated on this occasion. What I am contesting is how you understand this inspired text, and the possibility that you may not understand this correctly.

Kind reards
Trevor
 
Andreas said:
You need to tell us when you're giving an "honest recommendation"? What's everything else you recommend?

You're at it again posting verses that show Jesus was a genuine man. How does that disprove He isn't also God? Your limiting God. Muslims do this to a greater degree by denying that God could have a Son. You're half-way from doubt, but just need to accept Him entirely and not try to put your limitations on God.
Click to expand...
I don't put any limitations on God. I believe God is free to do anything. If God wanted us to know Jesus is God then I'm sure He could have found a way to put that in the Bible.

Don't you think something about the identity of our God hypothetically being Jesus would be a pretty big oopsie daisy to forget to add to the Bible?

Well, I don't think God makes mistakes and I don't think the Bible-writers minced words. There is an easy way to say Jesus is God and it's "Jesus is God." Full stop. All argument could have been silenced for eternity with those single words, but no one said it did they? They talked about being in the likeness, in the image, and all sorts of things don't really say Jesus is God. If you're wrong you have a lot to lose. If I am wrong I having nothing to lose.
Andreas said:
What do you have to say to MICAH 5:2?
Click to expand...
What do you think "One whose origins are of old" mean?
 
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