Jesus Teaches Total Depravity

David1701

David1701

Well-known member
T - Total Depravity: meaning that ever aspect of man has been corrupted by the Fall, who is now morally unable to please God, or to come to the Lord Jesus Christ in faith.

John 6:43,44 (LITV)
43 Then Jesus answered and said to them, Do not murmur with one another.
44 No one is able to come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up in the last day.

John 6:64-66 (LITV)
64 But there are some of you who are not believing. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were not believing, and who was the one betraying Him.
65 And He said, Because of this, I have told you that no one is able to come to Me except it is given to him from My Father.
66 From this time many of His disciples went away into the things behind, and no longer walked with Him.

The pride of man hates this teaching of Jesus, with a passion; in fact, it is so much hated that many of his "followers" say that they could never follow such a God, so they don't (even though, nowadays, they can still find a "church" that agrees with them, so they remain religious).

John 3:3-7 (LITV)
3 Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, if one does not receive birth from above, he is not able to see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus said to Him, How is a man able to be born, being old? He is not able to enter into his mother's womb a second time and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, if one does not receive birth out of water and Spirit, he is not able to enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That receiving birth from the flesh is flesh, and that receiving birth from the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not wonder because I told you, You must receive birth from above.

In order to perceive ("see") and enter the kingdom of God, which we know is done through faith in Jesus Christ, we MUST be born again FIRST. Jesus himself says so!
 
David1701 said:
T - Total Depravity: meaning that ever aspect of man has been corrupted by the Fall, who is now morally unable to please God, or to come to the Lord Jesus Christ in faith.

John 6:43,44 (LITV)
43 Then Jesus answered and said to them, Do not murmur with one another.
44 No one is able to come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up in the last day.

John 6:64-66 (LITV)
64 But there are some of you who are not believing. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were not believing, and who was the one betraying Him.
65 And He said, Because of this, I have told you that no one is able to come to Me except it is given to him from My Father.
66 From this time many of His disciples went away into the things behind, and no longer walked with Him.

The pride of man hates this teaching of Jesus, with a passion; in fact, it is so much hated that many of his "followers" say that they could never follow such a God, so they don't (even though, nowadays, they can still find a "church" that agrees with them, so they remain religious).

John 3:3-7 (LITV)
3 Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, if one does not receive birth from above, he is not able to see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus said to Him, How is a man able to be born, being old? He is not able to enter into his mother's womb a second time and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, if one does not receive birth out of water and Spirit, he is not able to enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That receiving birth from the flesh is flesh, and that receiving birth from the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not wonder because I told you, You must receive birth from above.

In order to perceive ("see") and enter the kingdom of God, which we know is done through faith in Jesus Christ, we MUST be born again FIRST. Jesus himself says so!
Click to expand...
And how is one birthed except by faith in the Word of God?

Sequence of salvation by God’s loving kindness.
*Hear the message of the Good News
*The Word finds root in one’s heart
*Repentance and belief in the Lord Jesus Christ
*Receive the Spirit of adoption, the Holy Spirit, who makes one spiritually alive and begins teaching spiritual truths of the Kingdom.

As a note: The sequence of salvation in real life is documented in Acts. They heard, believed, and received. None of them received the Spirit of God prior to believing.

God bless
 
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Joe said:
And how is one birthed except by faith in the Word of God?

Sequence of salvation by God’s loving kindness.
*Hear the message of the Good News
*The Word finds root in one’s heart
*Repentance and belief in the Lord Jesus Christ
*Receive the Spirit of adoption, the Holy Spirit, who makes one spiritually alive and begins teaching spiritual truths of the Kingdom.

As a note: The sequence of salvation in real life is documented in Acts. They heard, believed, and received. None of them received the Spirit of God prior to believing.

God bless
Click to expand...
So is the work of the Spirit prior to faith exclusively external?
 
Joe said:
And how is one birthed except by faith in the Word of God?

Sequence of salvation by God’s loving kindness.
*Hear the message of the Good News
*The Word finds root in one’s heart
*Repentance and belief in the Lord Jesus Christ
*Receive the Spirit of adoption, the Holy Spirit, who makes one spiritually alive and begins teaching spiritual truths of the Kingdom.

As a note: The sequence of salvation in real life is documented in Acts. They heard, believed, and received. None of them received the Spirit of God prior to believing.

God bless
Click to expand...
You omitted being born again (a.k.a. being regenerated), which comes immediately before repentance and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; also, the Holy Spirit is given us to indwell, giving us eternal life; but we were made spiritually alive when we were born again, immediately before repentance and faith in Jesus Christ.

Someone who is dead in trespasses and sins (i.e. dead to God, in the sense that he hates the Light and will not come to it; therefore, he cannot see or enter the kingdom of God, by faith in Jesus Christ) will not repent and believe. He does not receive the things of the Spirit of God (e.g. the gospel). This is why we MUST be born again, otherwise no-one would ever be saved.
 
David1701 said:
T - Total Depravity: meaning that ever aspect of man has been corrupted by the Fall, who is now morally unable to please God, or to come to the Lord Jesus Christ in faith.

John 6:43,44 (LITV)
43 Then Jesus answered and said to them, Do not murmur with one another.
44 No one is able to come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him, and I will raise him up in the last day.

John 6:64-66 (LITV)
64 But there are some of you who are not believing. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were not believing, and who was the one betraying Him.
65 And He said, Because of this, I have told you that no one is able to come to Me except it is given to him from My Father.
66 From this time many of His disciples went away into the things behind, and no longer walked with Him.

The pride of man hates this teaching of Jesus, with a passion; in fact, it is so much hated that many of his "followers" say that they could never follow such a God, so they don't (even though, nowadays, they can still find a "church" that agrees with them, so they remain religious).

John 3:3-7 (LITV)
3 Jesus answered and said to him, Truly, truly, I say to you, if one does not receive birth from above, he is not able to see the kingdom of God.
4 Nicodemus said to Him, How is a man able to be born, being old? He is not able to enter into his mother's womb a second time and be born?
5 Jesus answered, Truly, truly, I say to you, if one does not receive birth out of water and Spirit, he is not able to enter into the kingdom of God.
6 That receiving birth from the flesh is flesh, and that receiving birth from the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not wonder because I told you, You must receive birth from above.

In order to perceive ("see") and enter the kingdom of God, which we know is done through faith in Jesus Christ, we MUST be born again FIRST. Jesus himself says so!
Click to expand...

How it that "draws" = TD?
 
Slyzr said:
How it that "draws" = TD?
Click to expand...

I can't believe I have to explain it to you...

The "no man can come" is TD
The "unless the Father ... draws" is IG.
Those WHOM the Father draws is LA.
And the "he will be raised up at the last day" is PotS.

Four of the five points in one verse.
And if man wasn't TD, there would be no NEED for the "drawing".
 
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Theo1689 said:
I can't believe I have to explain it to you...

The "no man can come" is TD
The "unless the Father ... draws" is IG.
And the "he will be raised up at the last day" is PotS.

Three of the five points in one verse.
And if man wasn't TD, there would be no NEED for the "drawing".
Click to expand...

Still not seeing Drawing = TD.

Especially as in displacing free will.

Anyway ......
 
Slyzr said:
Easy ...... you can come or not come.
Click to expand...

Really?
Where does it say, "you CAN come"?

And what part of "NO MAN can come", allows for this imaginary set of "other men" to magically come?

And those who DO come, come because they are DRAWN (by God), not because they made some magical "choice" to come.

Slyzr said:
Drawing does not negate that.
Click to expand...

Yeah, there's a "stronghold" happenin' 'round here.
But it's not with the Calvinists.
 
Theo1689 said:
Really?
Where does it say, "you CAN come"?

And what part of "NO MAN can come", allows for this imaginary set of "other men" to magically come?

And those who DO come, come because they are DRAWN (by God), not because they made some magical "choice" to come.



Yeah, there's a "stronghold" happenin' 'round here.
But it's not with the Calvinists.
Click to expand...

See bolded above ....

By the drawing.

Back to post 9?
 
Johnnybgood said:
?
Click to expand...

Looks like you're on your own for a little while...
I guess it wasn't such a good idea after all to post pics of songbirds, and the lyrics to "Another One Bites the Dust".

Come to think of it, that latter bit was enjoyably ironic... ;)
Another one bit the dust! :ROFLMAO:
 
David1701 said:
No-one is able to come to me, unless ... then follows a work of God. This is what teaches TD.
Click to expand...

Not so quick; there gunslinger.

You still got "THEN follows the work of God".

Which is an affirmation of man being.

And not so much an affirmation of "total depravity".
 
Slyzr said:
Not so quick; there gunslinger.

You still got "THEN follows the work of God".

Which is an affirmation of man being.

And not so much an affirmation of "total depravity".
Click to expand...
What do you mean by "...an affirmation of man being."? Man being what?

No-one is able to come to me means just that. Since it takes the Father's effectual drawing, then fallen man does not have the capability in himself.
 
David1701 said:
What do you mean by "...an affirmation of man being."? Man being what?

No-one is able to come to me means just that. Since it takes the Father's effectual drawing, then fallen man does not have the capability in himself.
Click to expand...

post 15.
 
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