"multiple gods"?

[Bonnie]

dberrie said---"Again--where in the Biblical NT does it even equate the "one God" as the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost? That was reserved for God the Father only--the very God and Father of God the Son."



Such as this "one"?

John 17:21-23---King James Version
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.



Bonnie--God the Son was separated out from the "one God" of the Biblical NT--and you, nor any critic here-- has engaged that point:

1 Corinthians 8:6---King James Version (KJV)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

1 Timothy 2:5--King James Version (KJV)
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Ephesians 4:4-6--King James Version (KJV)
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.



You and Theo have your challenge in my above retorts--please answer to those Biblical testimonies.



Then "one" does not mean singular:

John 17:21-23---King James Version
21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
23 I in them, and thou in me, that they may be made perfect in one; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.



As you just stated--the "one" is made up of "millions". That translates to --"one" is a reference to unity.

In that sense==1+1+1+ millions="one". (John17:21-23)

No, it is not in "that sense." Volume is determined by multiplying, not adding.

Your repeat-itis is showing, as per my Mormon debate tactics in my signature. ALL true Christians are one in the Lord Jesus. Jesus prays that we be as united in faith as He and His Father are united. But the Father, Son, and HS are the "one God" as even your own BoM attests to, in several places. Is it wrong? In error?

But all true Christians are the "one church" and the "body" of Christ, with Jesus as the head. Does Jesus have more than one "body"?

Eph. 2: 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two groups one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit.

19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone. 21 In him the whole building is joined together and rises to become A holy temple in the Lord. 22 And in him you too are being built together to become A dwelling in which God lives by his Spirit.

ONE household. A temple--one. A building--not many. ONE.

Paul reiterates what Jesus means in Romans 12:

4 For just as each of us has one body with many members, and these members do not all have the same function, 5 so in Christ we, though many, form ONE body, and each member belongs to all the others.

ONE body in Christ Jesus our Lord. One in love and purpose in HIM. THAT is how all Christians are one. IN HIM.

 

[dberrie2020]

No, it is not in "that sense." Volume is determined by multiplying, not adding.

"Trinity" indicates a number--not a volume. That number is three--and it comes by adding the three Personages of the Godhead--not multiplying them.

ALL true Christians are one in the Lord Jesus.

Which points to unity--not numbers.

Jesus prays that we be as united in faith as He and His Father are united.

Which points to a unity, not a number.

But the Father, Son, and HS are the "one God"....

Please give us any Biblical reference which combines the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost as the "one God".

Quite to the contrary:

1 Corinthians 8:6---King James Version (KJV)
6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

1 Timothy 2:5--King James Version (KJV)
5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Ephesians 4:4-6--King James Version (KJV)
4 There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling;
5 One Lord, one faith, one baptism,
6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

as even your own BoM attests to, in several places. Is it wrong? In error?

The LDS refer to the "one" there as unity, not numbers.

But all true Christians are the "one church" and the "body" of Christ, with Jesus as the head. Does Jesus have more than one "body"?

If you are using that to indicate a number--then no, Jesus only has one church--which is founded upon the living, mortal apostles and prophets--Jesus Christ being the Chief Corner Stone. It also has the heavenly manifestations--with the canonized scripture to confirm it.

You church has none of that to support it's claim of being His church--but The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the NT church does.

ONE household. A temple--one. A building--not many. ONE.

But your church doesn't have ONE. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints does, and with servants dressed in white robes serving God in His temple night and day.

 

[Bonnie]

Dberrie, I am tired of repeating myself. The true church is built upon Christ's apostles, the TRUE ones of the NT, with Him as the cornerstone. It is a done deal. It doesn't need another foundation. It has a solid, true one now. What the Prophets and Apostles taught we have in their writings, inspired by God Himself, and God's word will NEVER DIE.

Eph. 2:

19 Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and strangers, but fellow citizens with God’s people and also members of his household, 20 built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, with Christ Jesus himself as the chief cornerstone.

BUILT is past tense. It is a done deal.

1 Cor. 3:

10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11 For NO ONE can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.

So, your church cannot lay another foundation for the church for it has already been laid--past tense--Jesus Christ! But YOUR church is laid upon the foundation of false prophets and false apostles--sinking spiritual sand. Nothing to boast about at all!

YOUR church is built on the foundation of false apostles and false prophets, who teach a very false Gospel message, which is NO Gospel at all, but a lie. Who is the father of lies, dberrie?

MY church is built upon the true Prophets and Apostles of the Bible with the true Jesus Christ as its cornerstone, because it teaches what they taught. Jesus is the Rock of our Salvation, upon which our salvation and eternal life are built.

"My hope is built on nothing less than Jesus' blood and righteousness. I dare not trust the sweetest frame, but wholly lean on His dear Name....on Christ the solid Rock I stand; all other ground is sinking sand." (by Edward Mote 1834)

Your church is built upon sinking sand, dberrie--the "sinking sand" of false prophets who prophesied falsely in a false god's name; a false savior, Satan's supposed brother (!), and a very false gospel whose chief component is your temple and all the works done therein. That is nothing to boast about. Paul says if we boast about anything, it should be in Christ Jesus our Lord, but you would rather boast about your false church.

 

[Theo1689]

LOL! Theo--"persons" is plural--and plural isn't "one thing".

Why do you play these stupid games, dberrie?
"persons" is plural, but "god" is NOT. "God" is SINGULAR.
This is a basic "bait-and-switch".

According to YOUR (bankrupt) "logic", you have 5 right hands.

I presume you have a right hand.
I presume your right hand has 5 fingers.
Since 5 fingers, THEREFORE (according to your (bankrupt) "logic"), you must have 5 right hands.

"finger" is not the same thing as "hand".
You can't "interchange" them.
"person" is not the same thing as "god".
You can't "interchange" them.

 

[dberrie2020]

Dberrie, I am tired of repeating myself. The true church is built upon Christ's apostles, the TRUE ones of the NT, with Him as the cornerstone.

Which were the living, mortal apostles and prophets--which your church has none.

It is a done deal.

Since it was a living, mortal apostle which came after the original twelve --which professed that testimony--it isn't a done deal. You can only close the door if there isn't ANY other apostle after the original twelve, and you, nor anyone else--is going to be able to make that claim, as the Biblical record shows otherwise.

And it was also the living, mortal apostles and prophets which the foundation was built upon--which means the continuance of that foundation depends on them being present, as living, mortal apostles.

Those living, mortal apostles were present until the end of the NT record.

Your church does not have any living, mortal apostles or prophets. That foundation isn't with your church.

Also--the testimony of the scriptures is--- the churches were established by those living, mortal apostles:

Acts 16:4-5---King James Version
4 And as they went through the cities, they delivered them the decrees for to keep, that were ordained of the apostles and elders which were at Jerusalem.
5 And so were the churches established in the faith, and increased in number daily.

Bonnie--your church wasn't established as the NT church was. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the NT church-- was.

It doesn't need another foundation.

So--why claim there is no need for the living, mortal apostles and prophets then? That was what the foundation of the NT church was built upon? The living, mortal apostles were present until the end of the NT?

Bonnie--your church does not have the living, mortal apostles and prophets. They never have. They haven't claimed one heavenly manifestation, nor any canonized scripture to record those heavenly appearances. No authority. They can't, because they don't have any to claim.

Those are the things which distinguished the NT church from all others. Your church is empty of those things. In fact--your church is named after the name of an ordinary man--because that is where it has it's roots. Which leaves you pointing your finger and accusing the very church which does possess those things. One can easily understand why--for the same reason the traditional Jews were accusing the NT apostles of those very same things.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have the living, mortal apostles and prophets, the heavenly manifestations restoring His authority to His restored church, the temple, the canonized scripture recording all those things--which is what the NT church had. And it bears His salvational name--Jesus Christ. That distinguishes the genuine from all others.

 

[dberrie2020]

Why do you play these stupid games, dberrie?
"persons" is plural,....

And that was the point addressed here:

Theo said---"You don't count one thing ("persons")"...

Again--"persons" isn't "one thing".

 

[keiw]

Where do we find a capital "G" here?

polytheism--Merriam Webster

: belief in or worship of more than one god

There is one God--there are many called god, but are not God. Some do however get worship from those living in darkness. But they are not God.

 

[Erundur]

Sorry, but one can still get volume of a three-sided, equilateral triangle by multiplying the three sides. That is how "volume" is determined in math--isn't it?

No, it isn't. Whoever came up with that comparison is completely clueless.

 

[Bonnie]

L

And that was the point addressed here:

Theo said---"You don't count one thing ("persons")"...

Again--"persons" isn't "one thing".

But God is three Persons in One God. "With man, it is indeed impossible. But with God, nothing is impossible."

Including expressing Himself as three distinct Person within the One Being--God. Maybe the limited god of Mormonism cannot do that--but the TRUE God of the Bible CAN--and DOES..

 

[Bonnie]

Which were the living, mortal apostles and prophets--which your church has none.



Since it was a living, mortal apostle which came after the original twelve --which professed that testimony--it isn't a done deal. You can only close the door if there isn't ANY other apostle after the original twelve, and you, nor anyone else--is going to be able to make that claim, as the Biblical record shows otherwise.

And it was also the living, mortal apostles and prophets which the foundation was built upon--which means the continuance of that foundation depends on them being present, as living, mortal apostles.

Those living, mortal apostles were present until the end of the NT record.

Your church does not have any living, mortal apostles or prophets. That foundation isn't with your church.

Also--the testimony of the scriptures is--- the churches were established by those living, mortal apostles:

Acts 16:4-5---King James Version
4 And as they went through the cities, they delivered them the decrees for to keep, that were ordained of the apostles and elders which were at Jerusalem.
5 And so were the churches established in the faith, and increased in number daily.

Bonnie--your church wasn't established as the NT church was. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the NT church-- was.



So--why claim there is no need for the living, mortal apostles and prophets then? That was what the foundation of the NT church was built upon? The living, mortal apostles were present until the end of the NT?

Bonnie--your church does not have the living, mortal apostles and prophets. They never have.

Your living, mortal apostles are fakes false apostles who teach contrary to God's holy word.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have the living, mortal apostles and prophets,

False apostles and false prophets, who teach a false gospel, which is NO gospel at all. They are "anathema"--cursed by God. Your church has nothing to boast about. It should hang its collective head in shame for the lies it teaches.

the heavenly manifestations restoring His authority to His restored church,

Nothing but a fairy tale told by your lying false prophet founder. Jesus said we would know false prophets by their fruit--and JS bore rotten fruit--he made false prophesies in God's name; taught false doctrines; made polygamy a doctrine, marrying 2 14 year old girls and other men's wives; was a hypocrite who preached the WoW while not following it himself--so pardon ME if I find his testimony unbelievable.

Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail against His church--but according to your founder, it did for over 1700 years, until Smith came along. So...whom should I believe--Smith or Jesus?

The Church never ceased to exist. Smith lied.

the temple, the canonized scripture recording all those things--which is what the NT church had.

The only temple they had was themselves--the TRUE temple in which God dwells by His Spirit. Paul said God does not dwell in temples made by human hands--which means He is not in YOURS.

Whom should I believe--Smith? Or Paul?

And it bears His salvational name--Jesus Christ. That distinguishes the genuine from all others.

Oh, baloney. Anyone can call a church after Jesus Christ or have "Christian" in its name. But that is NO guarantee it is a true church that preaches about the true Jesus Christ and the true Gospel--in fact, it could just be a cover to lure people into a false church.

What a church TEACHES about Jesus and the Gospel makes it truly HIS church. YOUR church does not fit that description. Not by any measure.

 

[brotherofJared]

Small g gods is not calling those God.

Nevertheless they are gods.

 

[Aaron32]

...

 

[Aaron32]

All in one being--you. NOT three beings but one being. However, after relooking at the definition of "consciousness" the only one that might fit is the third one I found on the Bing dictionary:

"the fact of awareness by the mind of itself and the world:
"consciousness emerges from the operations of the brain"

So, I think I will drop that description and just stick with Person. And God is three distinct Persons in one Being--God. The Bible demonstrates that.

Isn't it interesting how words fail?
If you're going to drop the term "consciousness" based on a Bing definition, maybe you should Bing Search the term "person" as well, just so that you can be congruent in your reasoning.

Actually, if we're relying on Bing definitions, maybe you should focus on the Greek verbiage: three "ousia" in one "hypostasis". As you do so, you make come to find that the origin of those terms didn't come from the Bible, but from the ancient Greek.

Yet, in my personal beliefs, I find the principles drawn from Trinitarian philosophy useful in Christian living. Bruce Ware wrote and excellent book called "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit". (The only problem is then "EFS" becomes a debatable topic.)

In any case, this is simply philosophy. I can be read into the Bible, but it did not come from the Bible, it came from a Church, that Protestants later rejected.

the Bible ALSO tells us that there is ONLY ONE TRUE GOD; that no God came before God and none will be formed after Him; that He alone is God and knows of no other. Do you believe what the Bible tells you here??

I've already gone through this, multiple times. I've established that the "one God" passages are primarily from the Old Testament, and New Testament passages are generally cropped to fit this narrative. I find your loyalty to strict monotheism interesting.
I would invite you to think deeply on this question: If I worship God the Father, in the name of the Son, why is it so important to you for me to accept that God is 3 ousia in 1 hypostasis? Because I don't recognize the doctrines of Athansius, your going to claim I don't accept the God of the Bible?

We will become holy and perfect as He is and eternal, living forever with Him. That does not mean we will become a god.

I suppose that's all dependent on how you interpret the term "god". Must I accept YOUR definition? If so, why?

Jesus isn't A god but THE God. There is a difference.

No, that would be declaring Jesus as THE hypostasis, not an Ousia. He is a person in the Godhead, of which possesses the fullness of God's authority. We can agree on that.

So do I and every other Christian on here. But we also realize that Jesus was FIRST God, the eternal Word of God. THEN He took on the additional nature of man, but never ceased to be God.

As do Mormons. The Church issued a proclamation declaring that Jesus was "God of the Old Testament, Messiah of the New"
So if we're in agreement, what's the problem?

I do say so, by comparing the Mormon god with the true God of the Bible. There is no comparison. God is....God. The LDS god is...NOT.

In my scripture study the other day, I came across Jeremiah 31, which prophesied about the New Covenant God would make with Israel, and put his law in the inward parts of man.
In the next verse it says "34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more"

I think there's a takeaway we can agree on. If I'm God's elect, it will be God that make the needed change in my understanding, not any other human.

And yet, here we find in your argument a intentional effort to dictate to me who the True God is, and that I don't believe in Him. when you cant admit the origins of your beliefs.

If you actually were the elect, you'd trust in the God of whom you claim to worship, let God speak for himself, and rend your heart not your garments.

I never claimed to be.

Then stop acting like it.

But then, neither are YOU.

I never claimed to be, and notice, I'm using reasoning and the Bible to justify my beliefs, not simply declaring you wrong.

God's word is truth. Let's stick to that.

Good advice.

God can give us understanding IF we ask for it with an open heart and a desire to know the truth. But that doesn't mean He will tell us everything right now, for, as Paul wrote, "Now we see as through a glass, darkly, but then, face to face."

Thus, the need for charity, not judgment.

Nothing in creation can adequately describe God.

Agreed.

Zion isn't a person, but a place. And Elohim means "God" or "gods" depending upon the context.

You're not going to understand my beliefs. That's ok. I was saying it to those who have ears to hear.

I don't think anyone on earth has that kind of faith.

Again, those who have ears to hear.

But we do that IN salvation, because the HS has made a new creation out of us by grace through faith in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Agreed.

Nope. The doctrine of salvation to eternal life should come from no place else except the Bible.

No so.
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you
Ephesians 4:
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ

Reading the Bible is one thing; understanding it on a spiritual level is another. God's word will be of no effect for someone reading them through their a priori lenses. That is what hampered the Wilders in their understanding of God's holy words. They knew the NT and even taught it....but they knew and read it through LDS eyes, so the true spiritual meanings just didn't register with them--until they scrapped all of that and started reading it as a comprehensive whole, as if reading it for the first time, as a child might, who has never read it before, starting with the 4 Gospels.

It has been awhile since I read the book, but one thing that struck Michael Wilder was the parable of the tax collector and the Pharisee who both went up to the temple to pray. Although he knew the story on a shallow level, what Jesus said must not have sunk in when he heard it in ward services or wherever he did hear of it. But after he had started praying and studying the NT with his wife, praying that God would open his eyes to the truth, the person Jesus said went away justified hit him like a sledgehammer.

The Wilder's organization sent me their books for me to read, and I'm in email correspondence with Lynn. The Wilders' problem is that they project their misunderstanding on all other Mormons. They mischaracterized Christianity, and when they understood it, they fell into an either/or complex. I'll be making a document detailing my analysis.

He at first thought that the Pharisee was one pious dude, that God must really like him. But remember whom Jesus said went away justified? And WHY?

If you know the answer to this, I find it interesting that you continue to demonize Mormons.
I'm going to take some creative license and modify Luke 18:11 to how it applies in our conversation.

"The Evangelical stood and prayed thus with herself, God, I thank thee, that I am not like Mormons who don't believe in the Trinity, and believe that ordinances, such as baptism, are necessary for salvation."

You see, it's not enough for you that we can agree on what the Bible says in exact text. You have to go the extra-mile to remind me that you believe you're saved, and I am not, and that you believe in the true God, and I do not. Such rhetoric is not serving the True and Living God, it's serving your ego. The children of God are peacekeepers, no? So why do you keep fighting?

Please stop your condescension upon me think you're going to teach me about being saved by grace not works. I already believe that. So what are you really trying to accomplish? Are you sharing the good news? Or are you more interested in Mormons being wrong?

Two things can be true at once:
1. We are saved by grace through faith
2. The kingdom of God has a gate and authorized servants

And you too, my friend. May The God of all mercies open your eyes to believe in the TRUE Gospel of the TRUE Jesus Christ of the Bible.

I do, thanks.

 

[Bonnie]

Aaron I would like to reply to you, but your post is too long and I would need to break it up into several. I don't have time for that; we are leaving to go on a cruise tomorrow and I won't be on much after today. But I will touch on a few points.

Words do not "fail". I simply dropped "consciousness" and would stick to "Persons" or perhaps, "personality." But nothing in creation can fully express Who and what God is and His nature. Creation is finite; God is infinite. He can do what we cannot. And He is NOT held captive to our finite ability to understand His nature fully, this side of heaven. Mormonism fashions God in their likeness, bringing him down closer to their own level, to make it easier to ascend to God's level--supposedly--if they are exalted to the CK after death, as they hope. But God is NOT a man, that He should lie. And Jesus says that "God is spirit" in John 4, and in context He mean His Father. So, He is NOT a person of "flesh and bones". The Father was never a man nor ever became a man. So, your founding prophet taught falsely about this. This teaching is a lie--so who is the father or lies? Whom should we believe? Smith--or Jesus Christ?

Yes, we know you believe that Jesus was first God who became a man. But that isn't the contentious part. YOUR church teaches that your god was once a man on "an earth" who had to learn how to be a god, going from one glory to another, until he achieved godhood (paraphrasing). That is the opposite of what Jesus did and is entirely unbiblical. Remember, Jesus said in John 4 that "God is spirit" and in context, He meant His Father.

The "only one God" passages are in both the OT and NT. The NT ones are not "cropped" to fit the OT passages. They echo the Old Testament passages. They CONFIRM them. God says that no god came before Him and none will be formed after Him. That He alone is God. Which means no Mormons are going to make it to godhood in the CK after death .

As for using Bible verses, I have been doing so--like John 4. But yes, there IS only One God. It says so both in the OT and NT.

No one here can change your mind and heart. That is the HS's job via the word of God, the Bible. All we can do is witness the truth. q

I do not "demonize" Mormons. But their doctrines ARE demonic.

The Wilders didn't understand true Christianity before they became Mormons, that is true. That made it easier to fall prey to the lies of the Mormon missionaries who came to them in Indiana, I think it was. But they most certainly DO understand true Christianity NOW, which is why they are no longer Mormons. They found the truth within the pages of the NT. So can all Mormons, if they take off their Mormon glasses and read it again as a child would, as if it had something to say to them, and lay aside their Mormon a prioris, as the Wilders did. All they wanted was the truth--the truth that Micah had found in the NT, that gave him the courage to stand up to the leaders in his church.

Maggie and Janice know what you are feeling and going through. That is why Maggie keeps writing to cling to Jesus and follow HIM, because no one can obey two masters--Jesus and false prophets. And I am sorry, but your church has, from day one, been led by false prophets. They are not of God. They are not anointed by the HS but by the spirit of error.

Jesus Christ loves you. Cling to Him and follow HIM, not your church and its leaders. JESUS.

 

[Magdalena]

Isn't it interesting how words fail?
If you're going to drop the term "consciousness" based on a Bing definition, maybe you should Bing Search the term "person" as well, just so that you can be congruent in your reasoning.

Actually, if we're relying on Bing definitions, maybe you should focus on the Greek verbiage: three "ousia" in one "hypostasis". As you do so, you make come to find that the origin of those terms didn't come from the Bible, but from the ancient Greek.

Yet, in my personal beliefs, I find the principles drawn from Trinitarian philosophy useful in Christian living. Bruce Ware wrote and excellent book called "Father, Son, and Holy Spirit". (The only problem is then "EFS" becomes a debatable topic.)

In any case, this is simply philosophy. I can be read into the Bible, but it did not come from the Bible, it came from a Church, that Protestants later rejected.


I've already gone through this, multiple times. I've established that the "one God" passages are primarily from the Old Testament, and New Testament passages are generally cropped to fit this narrative. I find your loyalty to strict monotheism interesting.
I would invite you to think deeply on this question: If I worship God the Father, in the name of the Son, why is it so important to you for me to accept that God is 3 ousia in 1 hypostasis? Because I don't recognize the doctrines of Athansius, your going to claim I don't accept the God of the Bible?


I suppose that's all dependent on how you interpret the term "god". Must I accept YOUR definition? If so, why?

No, that would be declaring Jesus as THE hypostasis, not an Ousia. He is a person in the Godhead, of which possesses the fullness of God's authority. We can agree on that.

As do Mormons. The Church issued a proclamation declaring that Jesus was "God of the Old Testament, Messiah of the New"
So if we're in agreement, what's the problem?

In my scripture study the other day, I came across Jeremiah 31, which prophesied about the New Covenant God would make with Israel, and put his law in the inward parts of man.
In the next verse it says "34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the Lord: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more"

I think there's a takeaway we can agree on. If I'm God's elect, it will be God that make the needed change in my understanding, not any other human.

And yet, here we find in your argument a intentional effort to dictate to me who the True God is, and that I don't believe in Him. when you cant admit the origins of your beliefs.

If you actually were the elect, you'd trust in the God of whom you claim to worship, let God speak for himself, and rend your heart not your garments.

Then stop acting like it.

I never claimed to be, and notice, I'm using reasoning and the Bible to justify my beliefs, not simply declaring you wrong.

Good advice.

Thus, the need for charity, not judgment.

Agreed.

You're not going to understand my beliefs. That's ok. I was saying it to those who have ears to hear.


Again, those who have ears to hear.

Agreed.

No so.
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you
Ephesians 4:
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ

The Wilder's organization sent me their books for me to read, and I'm in email correspondence with Lynn. The Wilders' problem is that they project their misunderstanding on all other Mormons. They mischaracterized Christianity, and when they understood it, they fell into an either/or complex. I'll be making a document detailing my analysis.

If you know the answer to this, I find it interesting that you continue to demonize Mormons.
I'm going to take some creative license and modify Luke 18:11 to how it applies in our conversation.

"The Evangelical stood and prayed thus with herself, God, I thank thee, that I am not like Mormons who don't believe in the Trinity, and believe that ordinances, such as baptism, are necessary for salvation."

You see, it's not enough for you that we can agree on what the Bible says in exact text. You have to go the extra-mile to remind me that you believe you're saved, and I am not, and that you believe in the true God, and I do not. Such rhetoric is not serving the True and Living God, it's serving your ego. The children of God are peacekeepers, no? So why do you keep fighting?

Please stop your condescension upon me think you're going to teach me about being saved by grace not works. I already believe that. So what are you really trying to accomplish? Are you sharing the good news? Or are you more interested in Mormons being wrong?

Two things can be true at once:
1. We are saved by grace through faith
2. The kingdom of God has a gate and authorized servants

I do, thanks.

Why do mormons think they need to go out and get everyone to believe their way and join their church, if we should just sit back and let Spirit teach everyone?

Also, this verse that you quoted is talking about Spirit teaching and witnessing the things God told us in the Bible. But you often talk like the Bible isn’t necessary.

John 14:26 “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you”

 

[brotherofJared]

The kingdom of God has a gate and authorized servants

Critics of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints seem to forget that God placed cherubim and a flaming sword to guard the way to the tree of Life.

 

[brotherofJared]

Why do mormons think they need to go out and get everyone to believe their way and join their church

A few reasons, there is only one way, there is only one through church, thank God commanded it.

 

[brotherofJared]

if we should just sit back and let Spirit teach everyone?

That's Aaron's take. He provides an excellent example of what happens when someone relies on their own concepts and what the spirit is teaching.

 

[Magdalena]

A few reasons, there is only one way, there is only one through church, thank God commanded it.

Christ is the only way.

 

[Aaron32]

Why do mormons think they need to go out and get everyone to believe their way and join their church, if we should just sit back and let Spirit teach everyone?

I think everyone should witness to the truth they know, and be good charitable people.
Once you've shared your message, and it's rejected, then there's no reason to argue about it.

you often talk like the Bible isn’t necessary.

I'm not sure where you got that impression.

John 14:26 “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you”

Still true.