Pope backs civil unions

[organgrinder]

before you blame people, bear in mind that civil law is not the same as moral law.

And the pope is still supportive of the same-sex unions. when he gives his personal stamp of approval to that which is biblically immoral, it makes no difference that it is "civil law". He has given approval. Yes, he has not spoken "ex cathedra", but people can see what he ha said. Imagine if the pope said abortion is a civil right for a woman. It might be immoral (which it certainly is) but is a civil law. If he said he approved of that how would it differ from approving same sex civil unions? Principle is the same.

 

[ramcam2]

And the pope is still supportive of the same-sex unions. when he gives his personal stamp of approval to that which is biblically immoral, it makes no difference that it is "civil law". He has given approval. Yes, he has not spoken "ex cathedra", but people can see what he ha said. Imagine if the pope said abortion is a civil right for a woman. It might be immoral (which it certainly is) but is a civil law. If he said he approved of that how would it differ from approving same sex civil unions? Principle is the same.

here is how it is explained, from americanmagazine.org ....

The pope also spoke about civil unions for same-sex couples in interviews in 2014 and 2017, but neither is explicit in its support as the pope’s statement in the new documentary. In a 2014 interview with Italy’s Corriere della Sera, Pope Francis was asked if the church could understand the approach of legalizing civil unions. Francis responded by saying, “Marriage is between a man and a woman,” drawing his usual distinction between a marriage and a civil union. He explained that states “want to justify civil unions to regulate different situations of coexistence, driven by the need to regulate economic aspects between people, such as ensuring health care. These are coexistence agreements of various kinds, of which I cannot list the different forms.” His response on the church’s perspective on such agreements? “We need to see the different cases and evaluate them in their variety.”

 

[ramcam2]

Catholic teaching holds that gay people must be treated with dignity and respect but that homosexual acts are “intrinsically disordered.” A 2003 document from the Vatican’s doctrine office stated the church’s respect for gay people “cannot lead in any way to approval of homosexual behavior or to legal recognition of homosexual unions.”

Doing so, the Vatican reasoned, would not only condone “deviant behavior,” but create an equivalence to marriage, which the church holds is an indissoluble union between man and woman.

That document was signed by the then-prefect of the office, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the future Pope Benedict XVI and Francis’ predecessor.

here is how it is explained from americanmagazine.org ....

The pope also spoke about civil unions for same-sex couples in interviews in 2014 and 2017, but neither is explicit in its support as the pope’s statement in the new documentary. In a 2014 interview with Italy’s Corriere della Sera, Pope Francis was asked if the church could understand the approach of legalizing civil unions. Francis responded by saying, “Marriage is between a man and a woman,” drawing his usual distinction between a marriage and a civil union. He explained that states “want to justify civil unions to regulate different situations of coexistence, driven by the need to regulate economic aspects between people, such as ensuring health care. These are coexistence agreements of various kinds, of which I cannot list the different forms.” His response on the church’s perspective on such agreements? “We need to see the different cases and evaluate them in their variety.”

 

[Beloved Daughter]

Well, it is one step closer for the RCC to recognize sacramental same-sex marriage. I see a news story today saying the Pope is calling for civil unions between same sex couples. Just another example of the church conforming to the world instead of the proclaiming the truth of God's word and standing as a beacon of truth in a depraved society. Here we go......... https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/worl...om-vatican-doctrine/ar-BB1ag1zi?ocid=msedgdhp

Absolutely true. More and more I understand (by the state of most societies) that the road is indeed narrow that leads to Christ.

 

[Beloved Daughter]

Francis was only advocating for a legal protection of homosexual couples. Not endorsing gay marriage. Similar to the Church's stance against violence against abortion facilities and staff.

Here's an idea. Francis is a heretic socialist. He has no standing to tell what civilians authorities must or must not do.

Do I really need to bring out the verses regarding homosexuality. It is clearly condemned.

 

[Beloved Daughter]

Sacramental 'gay' marriage will never happen. The Pope was simply proposing a contract to protect a form of union in the legal sense from exploitation, discrimination and the like. Those are issues that impact on the basic human rights of these people.

If the Pope cannot tell the difference between the abomination of sexual deviants, and the words of the Bible, then he is not fit to serve.

 

[Beloved Daughter]

The RCC as an organization is dead on arrival.

Yep, the gates of Hell has already prevailed against the RCC and Greek Orthodox.

 

[Beloved Daughter]

Ya but catholics are still defending him, something is around the corner i'm guessing where its gonna cause a schism.

I predict that you are correct. Then there will be 3 apostate organizations changing seats on the Titanic.

 

[organgrinder]

here is how it is explained, from americanmagazine.org ....

The pope also spoke about civil unions for same-sex couples in interviews in 2014 and 2017, but neither is explicit in its support as the pope’s statement in the new documentary. In a 2014 interview with Italy’s Corriere della Sera, Pope Francis was asked if the church could understand the approach of legalizing civil unions. Francis responded by saying, “Marriage is between a man and a woman,” drawing his usual distinction between a marriage and a civil union. He explained that states “want to justify civil unions to regulate different situations of coexistence, driven by the need to regulate economic aspects between people, such as ensuring health care. These are coexistence agreements of various kinds, of which I cannot list the different forms.” His response on the church’s perspective on such agreements? “We need to see the different cases and evaluate them in their variety.”

Ahh... the old situational ethics bs I was taught in Catholic high school. No read standard, especially no real biblical standard. He really appears to far calling sin a sin and what the remedy is for that sin-- Jesus Christ and Him crucified..

 

[ramcam2]

Ahh... the old situational ethics bs I was taught in Catholic high school. No read standard, especially no real biblical standard. He really appears to far calling sin a sin and what the remedy is for that sin-- Jesus Christ and Him crucified..

Pope Francis is referring to the legal rights of homosexuals. He has not said anything that changes the teachings of the church on homosexuality.

 

[1Thess521]

Pope Francis is referring to the legal rights of homosexuals. He has not said anything that changes the teachings of the church on homosexuality.

Vatican’s doctrine office stated the church’s respect for gay people “cannot lead in any way to approval of homosexual behavior or to LEGAL recognition of homosexual unions.”

That document was signed by the then-prefect of the office, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the future Pope Benedict XVI and Francis’ predecessor.

formally known as Tester

 

[ramcam2]

Vatican’s doctrine office stated the church’s respect for gay people “cannot lead in any way to approval of homosexual behavior or to LEGAL recognition of homosexual unions.”

That document was signed by the then-prefect of the office, Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger, the future Pope Benedict XVI and Francis’ predecessor.

formally known as Tester

legal recognition to mean a civil marriage that recognizes homosexual behavior is not condone by the church and this is not what the pope means.

 

[1Thess521]

legal recognition to mean a civil marriage that recognizes homosexual behavior is not condone by the church and this is not what the pope means.

There are many Cardinals who do not agree with your "personal interpretation" of what the Pope meant:
are they in error?

Here is a letter penned by Raymond Leo Cardinal Burke
Telling you that your Pope gave approval for homosexual unions in direct contradiction to Scripture and Tradition

Library : Statement on the Declarations of Pope Francis Regarding Civil Unions​

Statement on the Declarations of Pope Francis Regarding Civil Unions Pope Francis’ support for civil-union legislation is “devoid of any magisterial weight,” but are “simply private opinions,” Cardinal Raymond Burke has written on his personal web site on October 22, 2020. After carefully...

www.catholicculture.org

Cardinals Vigano and Muller has issued similar statements

 

[1Thess521]

legal recognition to mean a civil marriage that recognizes homosexual behavior is not condone by the church and this is not what the pope means.

is there any expectation from you that the Pope will clarify what he meant?




VATICAN CITY, October 24, 2020 (LifeSiteNews) ― Just a few hours ago, a group of young Catholics gathered in St. Peter’s Square in Rome, asking Pope Francis “for clarity on same-sex unions.” In a documentary released earlier this week, the Holy Father had expressed his support for homosexual civil unions.

Led by Alexander Tschugguel, known as the Pachamama dunker, the young people of Austria’s St. Boniface Institute gathered in St. Peter’s Square today with a banner reading, “Holy Father, we ask for clarity on same-sex unions.”

They were joined by a number of Catholics from other countries who knelt in the piazza, silently praying the rosary together.

""We want to believe that the Holy Father sees everything in the light of the teaching of the Church, but it gets harder for us every day. And we as faithful Catholics don't want to talk behind his back.""
-Alexander Tschugguel

And how is the request for clarity dealt with?

VATICAN CITY (ChurchMilitant.com) - The Vatican has imposed a media blackout after fresh revelations that the pope's approval of gay civil unions in a 2019 interview was censored, only to re-emerge unauthorized in the new Francesco film

 

[organgrinder]

Pope Francis is referring to the legal rights of homosexuals. He has not said anything that changes the teachings of the church on homosexuality.

When the pope, as the leader of the RCC, speaks in favor of such a sinful practice, it should make any disciple of Jesus Christ vomit. Even though it is a "civil union" (and what do you think that is anyway? Baking cupcakes for the neighbors?), what does that say? Here's a hint... He says I approve. You are splitting hairs on this one. and while there are some specific legal differences between the two, the bottom line is that homosexual unions are recognized. The next step, as it has been in other American states, has been gay marriage to tie up the loose ends. In practice, civil unions are gay marriage.

Scripture is clear on this matter. Francis is wrong. Here is something he should look at. Pick your translation for they all say the same thing.


Test all things; hold fast what is good. 22 Abstain from every form of evil.
(1 Thess. 5:21-22 NKJV)

Paul is writing to the church on behavior and practice in both the church and society. What do you think abstain from every form of evil means? Do you think giving approval and encouraging homosexual unions is "abstaining from every form of evil"? And while he is not het publicly advocating for homosexual marriages in the RCC-- yet-- he is advocating for homosexual civil unions (same and civil marriage) in society at large. Either he has forgotten what the word of God says or he never knew it to begin with.

 

[Thistle]

I think this brings up another burning question. Is the Pope Catholic? I used to think that was a joke.

 

[Sherman]

He does not seem Catholic to me. He's advocating for sin, and most Catholics I know are not agreeing to this.

 

[Thistle]

He does not seem Catholic to me. He's advocating for sin, and most Catholics I know are not agreeing to this.

I don't know any Catholics who aren't running for a political office who do. What does it say when someone is more faithful to their party than church?

 

[organgrinder]

Been a little quiet here on responses from our Catholic friends.

 

[Thistle]

Been a little quiet here on responses from our Catholic friends.

So it would seem.