Then stop ignoring it.
“Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind."
Can the unregenerate obey that command, @cadwell?
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- Thread starter Reformedguy
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Can the unregenerate obey that command, @cadwell?
Reformedguy
Well-known member
Which woukd mean the unregeerates faith is pleasing to God? Even though it says without faith it is impossible to please Him? ?His belief is, the unregenerate believe to salvation prior to regeneration.
That contradicts what he says HERE.
Ask him if the unregenerate can obey this command: “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind."Which woukd mean the unregeerates faith is pleasing to God? Even though it says without faith it is impossible to please Him? ?
You did say differently. You said they cannot obey, now its, they can obey, but it isnt pleasing.No one said differently. Their obedience is not pleasing to God. Without faith it's impossible to please Him.
Anyone cannot obey any commandment otherwise God causing you to do so would be unnecessary. Not to mention the Bible teaches no such thing. HERE
In order yo obey God's commands and decrees one must possess a heart of flesh. HERE
I agree with you, now, because its true. Balaam is a bibilcal example of someone with a heart of stone obeying God. Yes its not pleasing, but thats besides the point. The point is they can, so acts 5:32 stands as truth, a person with a heart of stone can obey the command to believe the gospel, have their sins removed, and receive a new heart and spirit, as the scripture says.
@Reformedguy,
Ask him if the unregenerate can obey this command: “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind
Ask him if the unregenerate can obey this command: “Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind
Reformedguy
Well-known member
They can with a caveat. Which I have Said from the start. A atheist can honor his parents or refrain from adultery. He does not do it by faith or because it is pleasing to God. Do you understand the difference? How come you don't get that?You did say differently. You said they cannot obey, now its, they can obey, but it isnt pleasing.
Anyone cannot obey any commandment otherwise God causing you to do so would be unnecessary. Not to mention the Bible teaches no such thing. HERE
In order yo obey God's commands and decrees one must possess a heart of flesh. HERE
I agree with you, now, because its true. Balaam is a bibilcal example of someone with a heart of stone obeying God. Yes its not pleasing, but thats besides the point. The point is they can, so acts 5:32 stands as truth, a person with a heart of stone can obey the command to believe the gospel, have their sins removed, and receive a new heart and spirit, as the scripture says.
Can the unregenerate keep the commandment to Love God with all your heart, soul and mind?
Impossible to please Him without it, means in order to please Him you need to have it. The dead believe unto life (john 20:31, 11:25).Which woukd mean the unregeerates faith is pleasing to God? Even though it says without faith it is impossible to please Him? ?
Reformedguy
Well-known member
You need to have but you don't have it. Where does it come from?Impossible to please Him without it, means in order to please Him you need to have it. The dead believe unto life (john 20:31, 11:25).
Those verses don't say that at all.Impossible to please Him without it, means in order to please Him you need to have it. The dead believe unto life (john 20:31, 11:25).
Reformedguy
Well-known member
False is not a answer to a yes or no question.You demand a yes or a no, and arent getting it. What you are getting is a well reasoned biblical response, that you cant address. Thus, around and around we go.
Already answered HERE.
You never answered HOW God cleansed you as He promised in Ez 36:25?
You never addressed how Ez 36:25-27 follows the exact same pattern (removal of sin before new heart/spirit) in FOUR other passages???
You never explained how you were able to obtain a promise of God before faith, in light of what the word says in Heb 6:12, and 11:33?
You never answered to why you believe one needs the Spirit to obtain faith, seeing what the bible says in Gal 3:2, 5, and 14?
We have no idea how you reconcile your beliefs with Acts 5:32, since you wont even mention it.
You never attempted to reconcile your beliefs with Balaam, whom you admit is an unbeliever, obeying Gods commands with a heart of stone in Numbers 22, if you think that cannot happen?
And your up to 3 as well.
Did you obey God command to believe before or after receiving a heart if flesh and the Spirit?
Number 4
Balaam believed Yahweh, and Yahweh responded to Balaam; didn't he?You did say differently. You said they cannot obey, now its, they can obey, but it isnt pleasing.
Anyone cannot obey any commandment otherwise God causing you to do so would be unnecessary. Not to mention the Bible teaches no such thing. HERE
In order yo obey God's commands and decrees one must possess a heart of flesh. HERE
I agree with you, now, because its true. Balaam is a bibilcal example of someone with a heart of stone obeying God.
Answer this, are all unbelieving human beings prophets who consult with God to get His permission to prophesy against Israel, and after He talks to them and tells them no, they continue in unbelief as Balaam didn't? ?
Are you kidding @cadwell?
Acts 5:32 doesn't say that at all.Yes its not pleasing, but thats besides the point. The point is they can, so acts 5:32 stands as truth, a person with a heart of stone can obey the command to believe the gospel, have their sins removed, and receive a new heart and spirit, as the scripture says.
Hearing. Romans 10:17.You need to have but you don't have it. Where does it come from?
False is the response to the accusation attached to the yes or no question.False is not a answer to a yes or no question.
Already answered HEREDid you obey God command to believe before or after receiving a heart if flesh and the Spirit?
You never answered HOW God cleansed you as He promised in Ez 36:25?
You never addressed how Ez 36:25-27 follows the exact same pattern (removal of sin before new heart/spirit) in FOUR other passages???
You never explained how you were able to obtain a promise of God before faith, in light of what the word says in Heb 6:12, and 11:33?
You never answered to why you believe one needs the Spirit to obtain faith, seeing what the bible says in Gal 3:2, 5, and 14?
We have no idea how you reconcile your beliefs with Acts 5:32, since you wont even mention it.
You never attempted to reconcile your beliefs with Balaam, whom you admit is an unbeliever, obeying Gods commands with a heart of stone in Numbers 22, if you think that cannot happen?
Actually, I can take the last one back, seeing how you changed course and admitted that the unbeliever (who would have a heart of stone) can and does in fact obey Gods commands. Really, admitting this truth renders the rest of your argument moot, since it rest solely on the thus proven false idea that one must receive the Spirit before one can obey.
Number 4 for you.Number 4
Thats what I tried telling you at the beginning of post 685, you hadnt come around to accepting the truth about unbelievers obeying so you argued against it. But yes, thats the point. They can obey, though not for the same reasons or outcomes of the believer, but they still can and do. So being able to obey commands without the Spirit answers the question of how faith in the blood of Christ can wash us of sins before a new heart and new spirit. The Spirit is given to those who obey, as the scriptures say. Whats being obeyed isnt any random commandment you can think of, it is being obedient to the gospel, obedient to the command to believe.They can with a caveat. Which I have Said from the start. A atheist can honor his parents or refrain from adultery. He does not do it by faith or because it is pleasing to God. Do you understand the difference? How come you don't get that?
Reformedguy
Well-known member
Not how but where does faith come from?Hearing. Romans 10:17.
False is the response to the accusation attached to the yes or no question.
Already answered HERE
You never answered HOW God cleansed you as He promised in Ez 36:25?
You never addressed how Ez 36:25-27 follows the exact same pattern (removal of sin before new heart/spirit) in FOUR other passages???
You never explained how you were able to obtain a promise of God before faith, in light of what the word says in Heb 6:12, and 11:33?
You never answered to why you believe one needs the Spirit to obtain faith, seeing what the bible says in Gal 3:2, 5, and 14?
We have no idea how you reconcile your beliefs with Acts 5:32, since you wont even mention it.
You never attempted to reconcile your beliefs with Balaam, whom you admit is an unbeliever, obeying Gods commands with a heart of stone in Numbers 22, if you think that cannot happen?
Actually, I can take the last one back, seeing how you changed course and admitted that the unbeliever (who would have a heart of stone) can and does in fact obey Gods commands. Really, admitting this truth renders the rest of your argument moot, since it rest solely on the thus proven false idea that one must receive the Spirit before one can obey.
Number 4 for you.
Thats what I tried telling you at the beginning of post 685, you hadnt come around to accepting the truth about unbelievers obeying so you argued against it. But yes, thats the point. They can obey, though not for the same reasons or outcomes of the believer, but they still can and do. So being able to obey commands without the Spirit answers the question of how faith in the blood of Christ can wash us of sins before a new heart and new spirit. The Spirit is given to those who obey, as the scriptures say. Whats being obeyed isnt any random commandment you can think of, it is being obedient to the gospel, obedient to the command to believe.
So you admit you did not answer it then we cannot precedes until you do.
So did you obey the command believe before or after receiving a heart of flesh and being given the Spirit of God?
Number 5
The cross? The gospel? God? I am not sure which answer satisfies your diversion, but whatever it is, wherever it comes from, it comes by hearing. The faith that pleases God, comes by hearing.Not how but where does faith come from?
I've both answered the question, and responded to the false accusation attached to the question. HERE. The word "false" addressed the false accusation, and the next sentence answered your question. But lets keep going around in circles, this is fun!So you admit you did not answer it then we cannot precedes until you do.
You never answered HOW God cleansed you as He promised in Ez 36:25?
You never addressed how Ez 36:25-27 follows the exact same pattern (removal of sin before new heart/spirit) in FOUR other passages???
You never explained how you were able to obtain a promise of God before faith, in light of what the word says in Heb 6:12, and 11:33?
You never answered to why you believe one needs the Spirit to obtain faith, seeing what the bible says in Gal 3:2, 5, and 14?
We have no idea how you reconcile your beliefs with Acts 5:32, since you wont even mention it.
Already answered HERE. You already answered it yourself, HERE.So did you obey the command believe before or after receiving a heart of flesh and being given the Spirit of God?
A unbeliever who obeys one of God's commands is not doing it because it's one of God's commands and are certainly not doing it by faith which.
You admit the truth that unbelievers can and do obey Gods commands. The bible proves it when Balaam obeyed God while being unrighteous.
Number 5 for you.Number 5
Yes, "Then faith is of hearing, and hearing by the Word of God." (Rom 10:17)The cross? The gospel? God? I am not sure which answer satisfies your diversion, but whatever it is, wherever it comes from, it comes by hearing. The faith that pleases God, comes by hearing.
Ez 36:25 renders their regeneration before justification (through faith) presupposition false.I've both answered the question, and responded to the false accusation attached to the question. HERE. The word "false" addressed the false accusation, and the next sentence answered your question. But lets keep going around in circles, this is fun!
You never answered HOW God cleansed you as He promised in Ez 36:25?
Also Ez 36:25-27 is futuristic which places regeneration after all the great exhibits of faith that the OT Saints manifested (Heb 11).You never addressed how Ez 36:25-27 follows the exact same pattern (removal of sin before new heart/spirit) in FOUR other passages???
The entire OT is a testament of how the faith of OT Saints preceded regeneration that occurred only in NT times.You never explained how you were able to obtain a promise of God before faith, in light of what the word says in Heb 6:12, and 11:33?
Those verses scream that we received the Holy Spirit by hearing of faith. What stops a Calvinist from hearing that verse? Their minds are so flooded with Calvinist presuppositions that they have difficulty hearing.You never answered to why you believe one needs the Spirit to obtain faith, seeing what the bible says in Gal 3:2, 5, and 14?
That verse clearly demonstrates that the Holy Spirit is not unconditionally given to the elect.We have no idea how you reconcile your beliefs with Acts 5:32, since you wont even mention it.
Summary: the inability of Calvinists to harmonize all of scripture is a recipe for disaster.Already answered HERE. You already answered it yourself, HERE.
A unbeliever who obeys one of God's commands is not doing it because it's one of God's commands and are certainly not doing it by faith which.
You admit the truth that unbelievers can and do obey Gods commands. The bible proves it when Balaam obeyed God while being unrighteous.
Number 5 for you.
CC: @Reformedguy
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I think his point is, your faith is ouk ek humon," not out of you, it is a gift of God. Eph 2:8ff; cf Php 1:29, 1 Cor 1:30.The cross? The gospel? God? I am not sure which answer satisfies your diversion, but whatever it is, wherever it comes from, it comes by hearing. The faith that pleases God, comes by hearing.
Reformedguy
Well-known member
Did you obey the command to believe before or after recieveing a heart of flesh and the Spirit of God per Ezekeil 36:25-27Yes, "Then faith is of hearing, and hearing by the Word of God." (Rom 10:17)
Ez 36:25 renders their regeneration before justification (through faith) presupposition false.
Also Ez 36:25-27 is futuristic which places regeneration after all the great exhibits of faith that the OT Saints manifested (Heb 11).
The entire OT is a testament of how the faith of OT Saints preceded regeneration that occurred only in NT times.
Those verses scream that we received the Holy Spirit by hearing of faith. What stops a Calvinist from hearing that verse? Their minds are so flooded with Calvinist presuppositions that they have difficulty hearing.
That verse clearly demonstrates that the Holy Spirit is not unconditionally given to the elect.
Summary: the inability of Calvinists to harmonize all of scripture is a recipe for disaster.
CC: @Reformedguy
It is futuristic. LOL At the time it was written it was prophetic dealing with the New Covenant.
And "ouk ek humon." Eph 2:8ff, Php 1:29; 1 Cor 1:30.Yes, "Then faith is of hearing, and hearing by the Word of God." (Rom 10:17)
Reformedguy
Well-known member
Did you obey the command to believe before or after the heart of stone was replaced with a heart of flesh and being given the Spirit of God?The cross? The gospel? God? I am not sure which answer satisfies your diversion, but whatever it is, wherever it comes from, it comes by hearing. The faith that pleases God, comes by hearing.
I've both answered the question, and responded to the false accusation attached to the question. HERE. The word "false" addressed the false accusation, and the next sentence answered your question. But lets keep going around in circles, this is fun!
You never answered HOW God cleansed you as He promised in Ez 36:25?
You never addressed how Ez 36:25-27 follows the exact same pattern (removal of sin before new heart/spirit) in FOUR other passages???
You never explained how you were able to obtain a promise of God before faith, in light of what the word says in Heb 6:12, and 11:33?
You never answered to why you believe one needs the Spirit to obtain faith, seeing what the bible says in Gal 3:2, 5, and 14?
We have no idea how you reconcile your beliefs with Acts 5:32, since you wont even mention it.
Already answered HERE. You already answered it yourself, HERE.
A unbeliever who obeys one of God's commands is not doing it because it's one of God's commands and are certainly not doing it by faith which.
You admit the truth that unbelievers can and do obey Gods commands. The bible proves it when Balaam obeyed God while being unrighteous.
Number 5 for you.
Number 6
Reformedguy
Well-known member
Still does not explain exactly where it comes fromAnd "ouk ek humon." Eph 2:8ff, Php 1:29; 1 Cor 1:30.