The Eucharist is the New Testament

[balshan]

nor was I taught that He was when I was a kid in catholic schools. we were taught He died on the cross on Calvary.

another new twist / perversion must be what the rcc is teaching.

a new branch of it?

But this new RCC seems to love changing its teachings, and changing things to suit their new loving all whether saved or unsaved heaven is there for all. No one needs to die, Jesus did not need to die.

 

[dingoling.]

You can repeat that talking point til Jesus returns...it will never change the fact that....

There was no NC in effect at the Last Supper. None...no blood shed and no death.

The fact will never change the the cup that is poured out for us is the new covenant.

 

[dingoling.]

straight to the point:

Is the the death of Jesus required for the New Covenant to go into effect??

No. See Luke 22:20

 

[dingoling.]

If it only needed communion then why did Jesus go to the cross. What a lot of unnecessary suffering.

The two are connected - you can’t have one without the other.

 

[mica]

The fact will never change the the cup that is poured out for us is the new covenant.

that you believe it was at the LS won't change the fact that it wasn't.

 

[dingoling.]

that you believe it was at the LS won't change the fact that it wasn't.

Jesus said that heaven and earth will pass away but his word will not pass away.

 

[mica]

mica said:
that you believe it was at the LS won't change the fact that it wasn't.

Jesus said that heaven and earth will pass away but his word will not pass away.

which has nothing to do with what I posted.

 

[dingoling.]

which has nothing to do with what I posted.

It means that the cup that is poured out for us is the new covenant in his blood. It is not symbolic.

 

[rossh]

This was brought up on another thread but wasn't discussed much there and I think it is important to discuss, so I started this thread.

According to scripture the Eucharist is the New Testament/Covenant:

Luke 22:20, "And he did the same with the cup after supper, saying, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new covenant in my blood."

I Corinthians 11:25, "In the same way he took the cup also, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.”

For the early church the New Testament wasn't a collection of the 27 writings/letters/books it was the Eucharist.

yes, we are all ( true believers ) to sit with each other at times and break and eat bread and drink wine as if we are Hebrews/Jewish right ?
Before you disagree, here is exactly what the Messiah to Israel told the Jews.
Matt 15:
23 But Yeshua did not say a word to her. Then his talmidim came to him and urged him, "Send her away, because she is following us and keeps pestering us with her crying."

24 He said, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Isra'el."

25 But she came, fell at his feet and said, "Sir, help me!"

26 He answered, "It is not right to take the children's food and toss it to their pet dogs."

27 She said, "That is true, sir, but even the dogs eat the leftovers that fall from their master's table."

28 Then Yeshua answered her, "Lady, you are a person of great trust. Let your desire be granted." And her daughter was healed at that very moment.

 

[mica]

It means that the cup that is poured out for us is the new covenant in his blood. It is not symbolic.

no it doesn't.

 

[Johan]

The fact will never change the the cup that is poured out for us is the new covenant.

It is not the cup that is poured out for us, but the blood of Christ. Your own translation, the Douay-Rheims, contains a most interesting future tense:

In like manner the chalice also, after he had supped, saying: This is the chalice, the new testament in my blood, which shall be shed for you.​

The verb ἐκχέω ("pour out") together with αἷμα ("blood") invariably denotes sacrifice or murder in the LXX and the NT:

The rest of the bull's blood [αἷμα] he shall pour out [ἐκχεεῖ] at the base of the altar of burnt offering at the entrance to the tent of meeting. (Lev. 4:7)​

​

Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood [αἷμα] of all the prophets that has been shed [ἐκκεχυμένον] since the beginning of the world. (Luke 11:50)​

​

And when the blood [αἷμα] of your martyr Stephen was shed [ἐξεχύννετο], I stood there giving my approval and guarding the clothes of those who were killing him. (Acts 22:20)​

​

Their feet are swift to shed blood [ἐκχέαι αἷμα]. (Rom. 3:15)​

In other words, Jesus is using sacrificial language here, with an expression that implies death. And He was sacrificed on the cross, where His blood was poured out for our sake. The cup of the Last Supper points toward the cup of suffering that He prayed to be relieved of.

 

[rossh]

You aren't after the truth.....the truth is a testament is not in force until the testator DIES.

what on earth does that mean ? Show us all the related passages of Scriptures, PLEASE ? ( the truth is a testament ) ?

 

[dingoling.]

yes, we are all ( true believers ) to sit with each other at times and break and eat bread and drink wine as if we are Hebrews/Jewish right ?
Before you disagree, here is exactly what the Messiah to Israel told the Jews.
Matt 15:
23 But Yeshua did not say a word to her. Then his talmidim came to him and urged him, "Send her away, because she is following us and keeps pestering us with her crying."

24 He said, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Isra'el."

25 But she came, fell at his feet and said, "Sir, help me!"

26 He answered, "It is not right to take the children's food and toss it to their pet dogs."

27 She said, "That is true, sir, but even the dogs eat the leftovers that fall from their master's table."

28 Then Yeshua answered her, "Lady, you are a person of great trust. Let your desire be granted." And her daughter was healed at that very moment.

The OC God made with the Jewish people, but the new covenant includes everyone.

 

[dingoling.]

no it doesn't.

According to Jesus it is.

 

[dingoling.]

It is not the cup that is poured out for us, but the blood of Christ. Your own translation, the Douay-Rheims, contains a most interesting future tense:

In like manner the chalice also, after he had supped, saying: This is the chalice, the new testament in my blood, which shall be shed for you.​

The verb ἐκχέω ("pour out") together with αἷμα ("blood") invariably denotes sacrifice or murder in the LXX and the NT:

The rest of the bull's blood [αἷμα] he shall pour out [ἐκχεεῖ] at the base of the altar of burnt offering at the entrance to the tent of meeting. (Lev. 4:7)​

​

Therefore this generation will be held responsible for the blood [αἷμα] of all the prophets that has been shed [ἐκκεχυμένον] since the beginning of the world. (Luke 11:50)​

​

And when the blood [αἷμα] of your martyr Stephen was shed [ἐξεχύννετο], I stood there giving my approval and guarding the clothes of those who were killing him. (Acts 22:20)​

​

Their feet are swift to shed blood [ἐκχέαι αἷμα]. (Rom. 3:15)​

In other words, Jesus is using sacrificial language here, with an expression that implies death. And He was sacrificed on the cross, where His blood was poured out for our sake. The cup of the Last Supper points toward the cup of suffering that He prayed to be relieved of.

It still refers to the chalice as being the new covenant in his blood

 

[rossh]

16 For where a will (diathéké) is involved, the death of the one who made it must be established.
17For a will (diathéké) takes effect ONLY at death, since it is not in force as long as the one who made it is alive."

re: the New Covenant; Did anything happen on the Cross?

Yes, many things happened on the Cross, the Messiah prayed for us and asked His Father to forgive us all as we know nothing of which we do. He also taught us to submit to God our Father in the Messiah... Best of all, we who confess Him in public, as our Lord and Savior, will be saved.

 

[rossh]

The OC God made with the Jewish people, but the new covenant includes everyone.

YES of course, however not the point is it. He said, " I was sent only to the LOST sheep of the House of Israel! " do you know who the person, Israel is ?

 

[4Him]

I know, it doesn't fit the Protestant narrative or philosophy.

JoeT

No, it's doesn't fit Scripture, that you and your cohorts clearly deny.....you deny God's word, period.

16 For where there is a covenant, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it. 17 For a covenant is valid only when people are dead, for IT IS NEVER IN FORCE WHILE THE ONE WHO MADE IT LIVES.

 

[4Him]

The fact will never change the the cup that is poured out for us is the new covenant.

No NC was in effect at the Last Supper, no blood shed and no death. PERIOD.

16 For where there is a covenant, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it. 17 For a covenant is valid only when people are dead, for IT IS NEVER IN FORCE WHILE THE ONE WHO MADE IT LIVES.

 

[4Him]

Jesus said that heaven and earth will pass away but his word will not pass away.

Correct.....these words aren't going away.....and they contradict YOUR beliefs...

16 For where there is a covenant, there must of necessity be the death of the one who made it. 17 For a covenant is valid only when people are dead, for IT IS NEVER IN FORCE WHILE THE ONE WHO MADE IT LIVES.