The free gift of God

[dberrie2020]

Of course--I don't deny this, so why do you keep having repeat-itis about it? But not everyone will accept this free gift of God--all too many will reject this gift.

Again--Jesus Christ's Atonement was a FREE GIFT to all men--unconditional:

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

"came upon"--past tense.

Whether one accepts it or not--it "came upon" all men--when Christ finished it, not when someone accepts it or not. Christ alone. Nailed to the cross.

I believe the critics here confuse the free gift--with the grace God extends to those who obey Him:

Hebrews 5:9---King James Version
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
There is a difference between the free gift to all men--and the one which goes to a "few":

Matthew 7:14---King James Version
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

 

[brotherofJared]

Again--Jesus Christ's Atonement was a FREE GIFT to all men--unconditional:

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

"came upon"--past tense.

Whether one accepts it or not--it "came upon" all men--when Christ finished it, not when someone accepts it or not. Christ alone. Nailed to the cross.

I believe the critics here confuse the free gift--with the grace God extends to those who obey Him:

Hebrews 5:9---King James Version
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
There is a difference between the free gift to all men--and the one which goes to a "few":

Matthew 7:14---King James Version
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

I believe you are right.

 

[Richard7]

Again--Jesus Christ's Atonement was a FREE GIFT to all men--unconditional:

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

"came upon"--past tense.

Whether one accepts it or not--it "came upon" all men--when Christ finished it, not when someone accepts it or not. Christ alone. Nailed to the cross.

I believe the critics here confuse the free gift--with the grace God extends to those who obey Him:

Hebrews 5:9---King James Version
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;
There is a difference between the free gift to all men--and the one which goes to a "few":

Matthew 7:14---King James Version
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

I leaned for the first time that Christians teach they can reject the resurrection... oh my!

 

[Bonnie]

I leaned for the first time that Christians teach they can reject the resurrection... oh my!

No true Christian rejects Jesus' resurrection--OH, MY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[dberrie2020]

No true Christian rejects Jesus' resurrection--OH, MY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree--but the critics here do reject the truth the Atonement of Jesus Christ was a "free gift" to all men--and "came upon" all men without conditions, other than Jesus Christ's righteousness:

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

IOW--you propose one has to earn that free gift by applying their acceptance or faith to it.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints preach it is an absolute free gift to all men--without conditions. Jesus Christ plus noting. His righteousness plus nothing. Unconditional. Nailed to the Cross. Christ alone.

 

[Richard7]

No true Christian rejects Jesus' resurrection--OH, MY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oh, sorry... no true Christian

 

[brotherofJared]

I leaned for the first time that Christians teach they can reject the resurrection... oh my!

They may want to.

 

[Magdalena]

I leaned for the first time that Christians teach they can reject the resurrection... oh my!

Do you get to keep your body in outer darkness?

 

[dberrie2020]

Again--Jesus Christ's Atonement was a FREE GIFT to all men--unconditional:

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

"came upon"--past tense.

Whether one accepts it or not--it "came upon" all men--when Christ finished it, not when someone accepts it or not. Christ alone. Nailed to the cross.

I believe the critics here confuse the free gift--with the grace God extends to those who obey Him:

Hebrews 5:9---King James Version
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

There is a difference between the free gift to all men--and the one which goes to a "few":

Matthew 7:14---King James Version
14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

Why do the critics here teach one must earn the free gift? It's a free gift to all men--period. Unconditional. Christ alone.

Folks--the "few" and "all men" are not the same. There are requirements to be the "few"--but the free gift went to all men.

The critics here conflate the two.

 

[Bonnie]

I agree--but the critics here do reject the truth the Atonement of Jesus Christ was a "free gift" to all men--and "came upon" all men without conditions, other than Jesus Christ's righteousness:

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

IOW--you propose one has to earn that free gift by applying their acceptance or faith to it.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints preach it is an absolute free gift to all men--without conditions. Jesus Christ plus noting. His righteousness plus nothing. Unconditional. Nailed to the Cross. Christ alone.

Au contraire--we too believe that the atonement is for ALL people, but not ALL people will be saved, because many will reject that free gift.

But in Mormonese, "salvation" is just resurrection from the dead to immortality, which happens to ALL, regardless of beliefs and how one lived one's life while alive. The part about all being resurrected is true--but NOT that it is "salvation." Being resurrected from the dead to spend eternity in hell is hardly "salvation"--is it, dberrie?

In Mormonese, "eternal life" is exaltation to godhood in the highest level of the CK after death--isn't it, dberrie? And this MUST be earned by doing all sorts of things in the LDS church--paying a full tithe to be "worthy" of getting into one of your "temples" to do all of the works and make all of the covenants therein. And make no mistake; what goes on in your temples that your people do ARE works; your own church says they are!

Temple Work

An fundamental overview of the purposes and blessings of temple work.

www.churchofjesuschrist.org

So, what REAL Christians believe in, is that we have eternal life by grace throug faith in Christ Jesus our Lord, as He Himself has said: "For God so LOVED the world, that He gave His one and only Son, that whosoever BELIEVES IN HIM will not perish, but have everlasting life."

Paul reiterates this in Romans 6: "For the wages of sin is death; but the GIFT OF GOD is life eternal IN Christ Jesus our Lord."

A gift, by its very definition, is free. It is NOT earned. The gift of eternal life is free to all who believe in and put their faith in Jesus Christ as their Lord and God and Savior--the TRUE One of the Bible, not the false one of Mormonism, who is Satan's actual brother (!) in the supposed premortal existence.

Mormons have received 'another gospel" which is nothing like the Gospel Paul preached. They are therefore, "anathema"--cursed by God. Because nowhere did Paul preach temples and the works done therein being necessary for eternal life. Nowhere did he preach that Jesus and Satan are brothers, or that there is a "heavenly mother" OR the Snow couplet: "As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may become."

From start to finish the LDS church preaches and teaches a false gospel, which is NO gospel at all--and they blindly accept it. They are, sadly, anathema--cursed by God, as Paul has stated. May they stop resisting the HS and reject all of their Mormon teachings and turn to the true Jesus Christ of the Bible to be saved, because He alone saves, and saves completely!

 

[brotherofJared]

Why do the critics here teach one must earn the free gift? It's a free gift to all men--period. Unconditional. Christ alone.

Folks--the "few" and "all men" are not the same. There are requirements to be the "few"--but the free gift went to all men.

The critics here conflate the two.

It is so difficult to get the dog to drop the bone.

 

[Richard7]

Do you get to keep your body in outer darkness?

Yep, all are resurrected... except for Lucifer and his followers, they will never have a body...

 

[Richard7]

Au contraire--we too believe that the atonement is for ALL people, but not ALL people will be saved, because many will reject that free gift

So folks, in plain English she is saying there is the possibility to reject the free gift and never received a resurrected body... it's a choice. Funny how we now see Christians preaching agency, to chose or reject a blessing...
So again, we don't believe predestination or lack of choice.... hmm!

But in Mormonese, "salvation" is just resurrection from the dead to immortality, which happens to ALL, regardless of beliefs and how one lived one's life while alive. The part about all being resurrected is true--but NOT that it is "salvation." Being resurrected from the dead to spend eternity in hell is hardly "salvation"--is it, dberrie?

That is if there really is a hell as Christians promote... yes there is a place called outer darkness, but not being saved as they believe does not consign you to hell....

In Mormonese, "eternal life" is exaltation to godhood in the highest level of the CK after death--isn't it, dberrie? And this MUST be earned by doing all sorts of things in the LDS church--paying a full tithe to be "worthy" of getting into one of your "temples" to do all of the works and make all of the covenants therein. And make no mistake; what goes on in your temples that your people do ARE works; your own church says they are!

NO salvation or celestial glory depends on one's own merits....If you love the Lord, keep his commandments.... this is not works but love for the Savior...

Temple Work

An fundamental overview of the purposes and blessings of temple work.

www.churchofjesuschrist.org

So, what REAL Christians believe in, is that we have eternal life by grace throug faith in Christ Jesus our Lord, as He Himself has said: "For God so LOVED the world, that He gave His one and only Son, that whosoever BELIEVES IN HIM will not perish, but have everlasting life."

I love that you now use through faith and not by faith, huge improvement Bonnie...

Paul reiterates this in Romans 6: "For the wages of sin is death; but the GIFT OF GOD is life eternal IN Christ Jesus our Lord."

Repent and be baptized, for the forgiveness of your sins....

A gift, by its very definition, is free. It is NOT earned. The gift of eternal life is free to all who believe in and put their faith in Jesus Christ as their Lord and God and Savior--the TRUE One of the Bible, not the false one of Mormonism, who is Satan's actual brother (!) in the supposed premortal existence.

By grace and through faith one can be saved.....

Ephesians 2:8-9

8 For it is by grace you have been saved,through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.​

Mormons have received 'another gospel" which is nothing like the Gospel Paul preached. They are therefore, "anathema"--cursed by God. Because nowhere did Paul preach temples and the works done therein being necessary for eternal life. Nowhere did he preach that Jesus and Satan are brothers, or that there is a "heavenly mother" OR the Snow couplet: "As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may become."

From start to finish the LDS church preaches and teaches a false gospel, which is NO gospel at all--and they blindly accept it. They are, sadly, anathema--cursed by God, as Paul has stated. May they stop resisting the HS and reject all of their Mormon teachings and turn to the true Jesus Christ of the Bible to be saved, because He alone saves, and saves completely!

Wash, rinse and repeat... boring...

 

[Theo1689]

So folks, in plain English she is saying there is the possibility to reject the free gift and never received a resurrected body... it's a choice.

Wrong.
She never said ANYTHING about "resurrection".
A resurrected body is NOT the "free gift".
Eternal life in the presence of God the Father and His Son is the "free gift".

 

[Richard7]

Wrong.
She never said ANYTHING about "resurrection".
A resurrected body is NOT the "free gift".
Eternal life in the presence of God the Father and His Son is the "free gift".

Bonnie said:
Au contraire--we too believe that the atonement is for ALL people, but not ALL people will be saved, because many will reject that free gift

So Theo, how can it be a free gift when there is a action of claiming Jesus is the Christ our Lord and savior... you do error in calling it a free gift is one has to put forth through faith actions...

 

[dberrie2020]

Au contraire--we too believe that the atonement is for ALL people, but not ALL people will be saved, because many will reject that free gift.

Again--the "free gift" was to all men--regardless of who accepts it--or rejects it.

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

What is there about "came upon all men" are we not understanding? It "came upon" all men when Jesus Christ finished it--not when you add your faith to it.

Bonnie--if it took your faith to somehow complete the Atonement--it would have failed, as it took the perfection of Jesus Christ--plus nothing. Your faith isn't perfect.

Free gift to all men.

But in Mormonese, "salvation" is just resurrection from the dead to immortality, which happens to ALL, regardless of beliefs and how one lived one's life while alive.

Another false statement--as has already been proved here.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe BOTH the resurrection, and the Atonement of Jesus Christ are a free gift to all men.

Bonnie--the Fall brought both physical and spiritual death to all men, as a result of the Fall.

The free gift of the Atonement and resurrection absolved all men of both of those deaths--as it relates to the Fall.

That's why the LDS believe all babies are born saved. If BOTH spiritual and physical death was not Atoned for, as a free gift to all men--then that couldn't be true.

The part about all being resurrected is true--but NOT that it is "salvation."

Salvation is defined as such:

salvation--Merriam Webster

1a: deliverance from the power and effects of sin

The resurrection, brought to all men due to the Resurrection of Jesus Christ--is the power in overcoming physical death for all men--which was due to disobedience to God. That fits the definition of salvation very well.

There are different forms of salvation, eternal life being the highest form of salvation to men.

 

[Markk]

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe BOTH the resurrection, and the Atonement of Jesus Christ are a free gift to all men.

Not really....you might want to listen to this, start at about 1:30. TCOJCOLDS teach only those that were obedient received the so-called free gift. and note the reaffirming of this teaching I have been showing you, is only a week old.

 

[dberrie2020]

dberrie said---"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe BOTH the resurrection, and the Atonement of Jesus Christ are a free gift to all men."

Not really...

Yes, really. Absolutely. Completely. You have already been shown you are wrong on this point.

Lesson 29: 2 Nephi 9:1–26

Lesson 29: 2 Nephi 9:1–26-Book of Mormon Seminary Teacher Manual

www.churchofjesuschrist.org

"Ensure that students understand that through the Atonement, Jesus Christ delivers all mankind from the physical and spiritual death brought by the Fall. Invite a student to write this truth on the board.

Remind students that in addition to delivering all mankind from the physical and spiritual death caused by the Fall, Jesus Christ can deliver us from the spiritual death caused by our own sins."


IOW--in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the Biblical text--all men were absolved from both physical and spiritual death--as it relates to the Fall--through the Atonement and Resurrection of Jesus Christ.(The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints often combine the resurrection within the "Atonement" of Jesus Christ).

The second death, or second spiritual death--comes because of one's personal sins--and their refusal to turn to Christ in repentance and obedience to Him.(faith in Christ)

Here is another article:

Death, Spiritual

Gospel topic information and links to additional resources

www.churchofjesuschrist.org

"The Book of Mormon prophet Samuel taught, “All mankind, by the fall of Adam being cut off from the presence of the Lord, are considered as dead, both as to things temporal and to things spiritual” (Helaman 14:16). During our life on the earth, we are separated from God’s presence. Through the Atonement, Jesus Christ redeems everyone from this spiritual death."

 

[Bonnie]

Again--the "free gift" was to all men--regardless of who accepts it--or rejects it.

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

I have never denied this, but accept it. But it is equally true that many will reject this free gift--isn't it?

What is there about "came upon all men" are we not understanding? It "came upon" all men when Jesus Christ finished it--not when you add your faith to it.

I understand just fine. But this gift must be received by faith. "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is life eternal in Christ Jesus our Lord." "For God so loved the world, that He gave His one and only Son, that whosoever BELIEVES IN HIM will not perish but have everlasting life."

What does "believes in" mean, dberrie?

Bonnie--if it took your faith to somehow complete the Atonement--it would have failed, as it took the perfection of Jesus Christ--plus nothing. Your faith isn't perfect.

My faith is just fine, because it is grounded in Jesus Christ the "author and PERFECTER" of my faith, as per Hebrews.

Free gift to all men.

yes, it is, but unfortunately, too many will reject that gift--like Mormons, JWs, and others in Christ-dishonoring, pseudo-Christian cults. And pagans. Atheists. Muslims....

Another false statement--as has already been proved here.

No, it is NOT a false statement; salvation in your church mainly just means resurrection into eternal life, which comes to ALL.

Salvation from Physical Death. All people eventually die. But through the Atonement and Resurrection of Jesus Christ, all people will be resurrected—saved from physical death. Paul testified, “As in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive” (1 Corinthians 15:22). In this sense, everyone is saved, regardless of choices made during this life. This is a free gift from the Savior to all human beings.

but is this type of "salvation" a gift, if one spends resurrection into eternity in HELL?

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe BOTH the resurrection, and the Atonement of Jesus Christ are a free gift to all men.

So do I. ALL will be resurrected, but some, to eternal life, and some to judgment--eternal "death" in hell, with the devil and all his angels.

Bonnie--the Fall brought both physical and spiritual death to all men, as a result of the Fall.

Gee, no kidding...

The free gift of the Atonement and resurrection absolved all men of both of those deaths--as it relates to the Fall.

That's why the LDS believe all babies are born saved. If BOTH spiritual and physical death was not Atoned for, as a free gift to all men--then that couldn't be true.

I believe babies are born saved, even if they die before they can be baptized, or are old enough to understand the Gospel. However, the Bible is actually silent on this, but I have always maintained that God can be trusted to do what is right and just and merciful in these cases--I mean, what about babies that die in utero? Or are born dead? Or, God forbid, are aborted?

Salvation is defined as such:

salvation--Merriam Webster

1a: deliverance from the power and effects of sin

But general salvation in your church meant resurrection to immorality, which happens to all, good, bad, or indifferent. That is not salvation, IF one spends eternity in hell, in a resurrected, immortal body. Is it? Salvation in true Christianity does not mean to be resurrected into an immortal body; it means ONLY to be saved from one's sins by grace through faith in Christ Jesus our Lord, and that salvation is unto eternal life in heaven with God the Father and Jesus Christ for eternity.

However, I do agree that salvation means to be saved from one's sins.

The resurrection, brought to all men due to the Resurrection of Jesus Christ--is the power in overcoming physical death for all men--which was due to disobedience to God. That fits the definition of salvation very well.

No, it doesn't, since being resurrected to an eternal body and spending eternity in Hell in that resurrected body is NOT A GIFT. Is it?

There are different forms of salvation, eternal life being the highest form of salvation to men.

There is only one form of salvation and that is unto eternal life in heaven with God the Father and Jesus Christ, in our resurrected, glorified bodies.

Your church has a bad habit of redefining words that the true Christian church has been using, based upon the Bible, for nearly 2000 years.

What Does the Bible Say About Salvation And Eternal Life?

Bible verses about Salvation And Eternal Life

www.openbible.info

But resurrection to immortality in an immortal body to spend eternity suffering in hell is hardly "salvation". Is it?

 

[Markk]

dberrie said---"The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints believe BOTH the resurrection, and the Atonement of Jesus Christ are a free gift to all men."



Yes, really. Absolutely. Completely. You have already been shown you are wrong on this point.

Lesson 29: 2 Nephi 9:1–26

Lesson 29: 2 Nephi 9:1–26-Book of Mormon Seminary Teacher Manual

www.churchofjesuschrist.org

"Ensure that students understand that through the Atonement, Jesus Christ delivers all mankind from the physical and spiritual death brought by the Fall. Invite a student to write this truth on the board.

Remind students that in addition to delivering all mankind from the physical and spiritual death caused by the Fall, Jesus Christ can deliver us from the spiritual death caused by our own sins."


IOW--in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the Biblical text--all men were absolved from both physical and spiritual death--as it relates to the Fall--through the Atonement and Resurrection of Jesus Christ.(The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints often combine the resurrection within the "Atonement" of Jesus Christ).

The second death, or second spiritual death--comes because of one's personal sins--and their refusal to turn to Christ in repentance and obedience to Him.(faith in Christ)

Here is another article:

Death, Spiritual

Gospel topic information and links to additional resources

www.churchofjesuschrist.org

"The Book of Mormon prophet Samuel taught, “All mankind, by the fall of Adam being cut off from the presence of the Lord, are considered as dead, both as to things temporal and to things spiritual” (Helaman 14:16). During our life on the earth, we are separated from God’s presence. Through the Atonement, Jesus Christ redeems everyone from this spiritual death."

Did you listen to Elder Bangerter's Talk?

In your two links, neither say anything about a "free gift". In fact the first one only mentions the word "free" once, in regard to agency, and the second link does not us ethe words at all.

Elder Bangerter is very very clear that in the mortal world there were conditions and choices that had to be made and followed in order receive a mortal body and have a chance, again by obedience to have eternal life.

He states there were blessings received Before you came to this earth as Literal children of HF. He stated you have a divine nature imbedded in you.

He said very very clearly that you were blessed with agency and make choices, such the choice to follow heavenly fathers plan of happiness, or plan of salvation. Which supports the LDS teaching that only 2/3rds of his children received the atonement, and those that did, did so out of choice, and obedience and thus "blessed" with the chance to work their way back to HF by obedience here, via by obeying the laws and ordinances of the gospel.

Are you denying Elder Bangderer's teachings? Which I have been explaining to you over that paste few months?

I a LDS construct, what did you do in the pre-existence to receive the blessing that Elder Bangderer was teaching?

Also, I started a thread on the BoA I would love to have you join in, and start by giving your opinion in regard to the truth claims. Ralf has started to, and Gordon said he would do so this weekend. Then hopefully we can go through it all together. More male members either PIMO or leave the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, because of this single subject, so it is for sure one of the most interesting and important subjects to discuss on forums like this; for those defending and criticizing the truth claims of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.

I hope t see you there I am interested on what your view might be.