The gospel in Genesis.

fltom said:
Lydia worshipped God before that

and thus had the promise

Romans 8:28-30 (KJV)
28 And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30 Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.
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No Sir, over and over Scripture tells us of our sinful condition. That our hearts are made of stone, that our desires and pleasures are to gratify the flesh are in bondage or enslaved to what we love, which we fulfill by our free-wills. No one seeks after God, no one is good, we all have gone our own way.

All of this is in Scripture, and not only that but it's God who made us alive in Christ when we were dead in our sins. You can try to distort this all you want, it won't change who we are, and who God is. Sinners plummeted into darkness after the fall, and only God in Christ can descend down to us and redeem sinners.

Your feeble attempt to build another Babel tower will fail.

You quote those passages as if they help your case, but only his sheep, his people, will hear his voice and follow him (John 10).
 
Ladodgers6 said:
No Sir, over and over Scripture tells us of our sinful condition. That our hearts are made of stone, that our desires and pleasures are to gratify the flesh are in bondage or enslaved to what we love, which we fulfill by our free-wills. No one seeks after God, no one is good, we all have gone our own way.

All of this is in Scripture, and not only that but it's God who made us alive in Christ when we were dead in our sins. You can try to distort this all you want, it won't change who we are, and who God is. Sinners plummeted into darkness after the fall, and only God in Christ can descend down to us and redeem sinners.

Your feeble attempt to build another Babel tower will fail.

You quote those passages as if they help your case, but only his sheep, his people, will hear his voice and follow him (John 10).
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No sirs what

Lydia was a worshipper of God that was a fact

That was before Paul ever preached to her

Acts 16:9-14 (KJV)
9 And a vision appeared to Paul in the night; There stood a man of Macedonia, and prayed him, saying, Come over into Macedonia, and help us.
10 And after he had seen the vision, immediately we endeavoured to go into Macedonia, assuredly gathering that the Lord had called us for to preach the gospel unto them.
11 Therefore loosing from Troas, we came with a straight course to Samothracia, and the next day to Neapolis;
12 And from thence to Philippi, which is the chief city of that part of Macedonia, and a colony: and we were in that city abiding certain days.
13 And on the sabbath we went out of the city by a river side, where prayer was wont to be made; and we sat down, and spake unto the women which resorted thither.
14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.
 
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CrowCross said:
The point being, and you seem to be agreeing with....God has to move first.
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Sure, God moves first; and to all humanity by the giving of His Son as the propitiation for our sins. Those who hear and learn get drawn. Those who hear and reject are not drawn.

Lydia worshipped God prior to Christ; hence she heard and learned from the Father, and was drawn by God to our Lord and believed.

One can love the darkness or one can do what is right…reference John 3:19-21

So did you decide to do what is right? Or do you love the darkness and refuse to come into the light?

God bless
 
Joe said:
Expected response…

Because we are individuals who can and do according to our own will. No two finger prints are alike, and so is it with people.

Why is that? Because God is amazing and made each person to be independent in mind and decisions. You are you and I am me. Fairly simple.

God bless
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"independent in mind and decisions"...OK, I'll agree with that...but....what if a man hears a clever professor who tells the man there is no such thing as God. Then the man believes the clever professor....never accepts Jesus because of what the professor told him. The man made an independent, yet influenced decision... then dies and goes to hell.

Second scenario....same man never meets the clever professor. Because he was never convinced by the clever professor there was no God, he believed in a God and came to accept Jesus. Once again an independent decision was made....then dies and goes to heaven.

In both scenarios it can be argued the man did according to his own will. In the first scenario it seem the man was cheated out of salvation because he met the clever professor. In a sense the clever professor stole the mans salvation.

Free-will salvation is based upon "happenstance" (life experience). When presented with Jesus you run the question of belief and acceptance through your life filter that is built on the happenstances of your life. Free-will says if you have the right happenstances you get saved. If you don't have the right happenstances, you don't choose Jesus and are lost.
 
Joe said:
Sure, God moves first; and to all humanity by the giving of His Son as the propitiation for our sins. Those who hear and learn get drawn. Those who hear and reject are not drawn.
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Then many reject because of "happenstance". (life experience). My previous post touched on that.
Joe said:
Lydia worshipped God prior to Christ; hence she heard and learned from the Father, and was drawn by God to our Lord and believed.

One can love the darkness or one can do what is right…reference John 3:19-21

So did you decide to do what is right? Or do you love the darkness and refuse to come into the light?

God bless
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You asked "So did you decide to do what is right?" No. I was dead in my sins and transgressions and God had to regenerate me first. I had to be brought into the light.
When I was saved, born again...or as the instant process was happening I was given the gift of faith. I was given the Holy Spirit. I was washed clean by the blood of Christ. Only now can I choose the light.
 
CrowCross said:
Then many reject because of "happenstance". (life experience). My previous post touched on that.

You asked "So did you decide to do what is right?" No. I was dead in my sins and transgressions and God had to regenerate me first. I had to be brought into the light.
When I was saved, born again...or as the instant process was happening I was given the gift of faith. I was given the Holy Spirit. I was washed clean by the blood of Christ. Only now can I choose the light.
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Except faith precedes regeneration

Regeneration is the impartation of life which is preceded by faith/repentance

John 20:31 (KJV)
31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

John 5:40 (KJV)
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life.

Acts 11:18 (KJV)
18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

John 6:57 (KJV)
57 As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

Regeneration makes one a child of God. One is made a child of God through faith

John 1:12 (KJV)
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Galatians 3:26 (KJV)
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

John 12:36 (KJV)
36 While ye have light, believe in the light, that ye may be the children of light. These things spake Jesus, and departed, and did hide himself from them.

Regeneration is a spiritual resurrection. It is through faith

Colossians 2:12 (KJV)
12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

One is born again through faith in gospel

James 1:18 (KJV)
18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.

1 Peter 1:23 (KJV)
23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.

1 Corinthians 4:15 (KJV)
15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel.


Regeneration is the mechanism of salvation

Titus 3:5 (KJV)
5 Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost;

Ephesians 2:5 (KJV)
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved

it is through faith we are saved

Titus 3:8 (KJV)
8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.

Regeneration is preceded by remission of sin

Colossians 2:13 (KJV)
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

which requires both faith and repentance

Acts 10:43 (KJV)
43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Luke 24:47 (KJV)
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

Acts 5:31 (KJV)
31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.
 
Joe said:
No, I was not mocking God. I expressed the outward appearance of Calvinism that a vast majority of Christianity rejects.
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Which is your opinion Joe.
Joe said:
The doctrine is inspired by a man in the 400’s, and hashed out later by a man in the 1500’s.
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And where does the Arminian doctrine come from?
At one time the only Christian church was the Catholic Church.The ECF’s struggled and debated with a lot of doctrines trying to make their way in the church. None of them were perfect.
At the reformation, Luther did not want to leave the Church, he wanted to reform it.
Arminius came on the scene developing his Arminianism. So now we have Calvinists, Lutherans and Arminians.
But you claim Calvinism started in the 1500’s?
What about Arminianism? Did you forget them?
So now we have both claiming to be biblical. But you say Calvin is traced back to Augustine. What about Arminus? Did Arminians finally discover truth 1500 years later?
I’ll tell ya, the Arminians didn’t leave all of Rome in Rome. And it’s a short road back.

Joe said:
It is contradictory to the revelation of God by and through Jesus Christ our Lord.

God bless
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This is what we should sincerely look to, God’s word.
Forget the tags,C&A.
Look at God’s word from Genesis to Revelation.
Then check the systems. As long as you think and are influenced by the world and the flesh, you won’t settle this.
 
Joe said:
Brother, that is not what you asked.

You asked, “Was Adam & Eve asked if they wanted to be created, or did God violate their free-will?”

Your question was nothing than a pot-shot at those who believe man can, and does respond to God’s universal command to repent and believe to have a new life.

But I will answer your questions; the original one and this additional one.

No man has any will prior to conception, for he does not exist…easy enough right? But in the case of the Calvinist minded, they often apply the fleshly birth to the spiritual birth. The only problem is, man is existent at this point and fully functional with a will. God does not save nonexistent people. He saves those who are living and have a will, and to those who hear and obey His command to repent-have a change of mind and believe, He forgives and lives inside them; being born anew at this point.
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Joe, do you believe in original sin? Or do you deny it? Because I think your missing something here of much importance
Joe said:
As for your second question about them being kicked out of Eden. I don’t know. I’m sure they were traumatized by it all, but I don’t recall reading anything in the Bible about their response.

God bless
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fltom said:
Ephesians 2:5 (KJV)
5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved
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Yup, made alive happened first.
As for grace..it's a gift.

For it is by grace you have been saved through faith, and this not from yourselves; it is the gift of God,

Even your verse from Col shows regeneration first.
Colossians 2:13 (KJV)
13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

As to the ther verses...many of them don't even discuss the topic.
 
Carbon said:
Genesis 3:15
I will put enmity between you and the woman,
and between your offspring and her offspring;
he shall bruise your head,
and you shall bruise his heel.”
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Does anyone see grace in this verse?

What about the enmity? What is God referring to considering He speaking about Eve; and his and her offspring.

Is this a type or shadow of the church? The church in the world along with the unbelievers?
 
Johnnybgood said:
No type or shadow of the church that is spiritualizing and eisegesis
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There you go Johnny, you don’t see the gospel in the OT?
Do you agree that Christ is the central figure in scripture?
Or do you believe, God, as time passes comes up with other ideas and doctrines?

Does all scripture point at the Son of God?
 
Johnnybgood said:
Christ is but eve is not the church . Do you have a NT passage confirming she is a type ?
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The New Testament passages show and teach Christ as the Antitype. They show the fulfillment of Christ and His church.

You really disagree?
 
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