The gospel in Genesis.

Ladodgers6

Well-known member
Er that is predestination of those in Christ to adoption

Not predestination to enter into salvation
Huh? Predestination of those in Christ to adoption??? If you're in Christ, you are already adopted!!! Predestination of the elect before the foundation of creation, right? God's Plan of Redemption.

Ephesians 1:4even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will

Let's see how you will distort Scripture.
 

Ladodgers6

Well-known member
How so?
I've read these verses MANY times, both in English and in the underlying Greek.
And I don't see how theyin any way contradict Calvinism.

Can you explain your argument to us?
Or should we simply conclude that you're not a very good "teacher" (James 3:1) and that you don't understand the Scriptures (2 Pet. 3:16)?
It's the world argument again.
 

Leatherneck0311

Well-known member
I agree with this. Can you answer to why sending these are Grace?

Can you explain how providing conviction comes through the Spirit?

Interesting, how is this belief wrought by the Spirit?

So, let me ask you this, is the way you lay out your comments here, the order of Salvation?

It was what I thought, okay, so answer what does this conviction wrought by the Spirit does? For clarification, I am asking you this: does this conviction truly reveal the biblical truths of the word wrought of the Spirit? Is this Spirit that wrought truth and faith, regeneration prior to it? Follow?

See, we do not pretend things do not happen, the difference is that we believe that Effectual Grace is Alive and Active in its purpose to save. It comes with God's power, not to be resisted by His elect. But actually, saves them from their sins, as God Promised! Your strawman saves no one, because they just don't care, but God does care. This is why I am a convinced Classical Reformed Calvinist (Doctrines of Grace), because there is Salvation for the wicked, assurance in His Son who died for my sins, and propitiated my punishment and the wrath I was facing. He was raised for my Justification, He has conquered all enemies, and reigns supreme above all, as we in Him are more than conquerors!​

This is why, there's no hope in man, and only in Grace Alone!
What good would a gift (grace) be if there was no faith to believe(faith) or accept (faith) the gift for an individual?
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
It's the world argument again.

So what he seems to be arguing is that we have to reject what the Bible teaches, simply because he doesn't understand the correct meaning of "kosmos".

Why do all these heretics consider themselves inerrant and infallible?
 

Ladodgers6

Well-known member
Through God’s foreknowledge He knew who would accept or reject the good news,
Show me in Scripture where I can find this? Because Scripture disagrees with you. My suggestion, take it or leave it. Is do more homework before you engage any further. You are lacking knowledge in these topics. Not trying to be mean here, just pointing out the obvious. Here's more Scripture for you:

Ephesians 1:4even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will

but no God did not program or decree some to believe and some to reject truth.
Program??? You need to start with this before you continue, just trying to help you. Go back, and look at how God created Adam, then studying the Fall and what happened to Adam and us after the Fall. Then studying the doctrine of sin, which will lead you the Doctrine of Grace, and why and how sinners cannot save themselves from sin, they're in bondage to it. Sinners are hostile toward God, they hate God, they are enemies of God. Why would they believe him??? If God doesn't do something to change that??? Only a Divine Act of Grace can and does do it.

Foot note: Sinners will always reject the truth and resist him, no matter what. Until God descends down in the person of Christ through a Covenant of Redemption, to save and redeem His people from their sins!

You are looking at it, the wrong way. Do your homework!​
 

Ladodgers6

Well-known member
So what he seems to be arguing is that we have to reject what the Bible teaches, simply because he doesn't understand the correct meaning of "kosmos".

Why do all these heretics consider themselves inerrant and infallible?
Exactly, it's the humanistic emotional argument. He thinks God is unfair, that only some are saved, while others are left out.
 

Leatherneck0311

Well-known member
Show me in Scripture where I can find this? Because Scripture disagrees with you. My suggestion, take it or leave it. Is do more homework before you engage any further. You are lacking knowledge in these topics. Not trying to be mean here, just pointing out the obvious. Here's more Scripture for you:

Ephesians 1:4even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love 5he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will



Program??? You need to start with this before you continue, just trying to help you. Go back, and look at how God created Adam, then studying the Fall and what happened to Adam and us after the Fall. Then studying the doctrine of sin, which will lead you the Doctrine of Grace, and why and how sinners cannot save themselves from sin, they're in bondage to it. Sinners are hostile toward God, they hate God, they are enemies of God. Why would they believe him??? If God doesn't do something to change that??? Only a Divine Act of Grace can and does do it.

Foot note: Sinners will always reject the truth and resist him, no matter what. Until God descends down in the person of Christ through a Covenant of Redemption, to save and redeem His people from their sins!

You are looking at it, the wrong way. Do your homework!​
Looks you don’t know what you think you know, sadly. How did you miss this ? I know the drill now you will tell me the verse does not mean what it says.
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1Pe 1:2 - Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father,through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
 

Ladodgers6

Well-known member
What good would a gift (grace) be if there was no faith to believe(faith) or accept (faith) the gift for an individual?
Let me put it this way. Do you believe that sinners who are dead in trespasses and sins, hostile toward to God, and are enemies of God, there's enmity between us, will sinners trust and believe God apart from any Grace that changes their hearts of stone, and renews their minds?

BTW, faith is the gift of God as well.​
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Looks you don’t know what you think you know, sadly. How did you miss this ? I know the drill now you will tell me the verse does not mean what it says.
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1Pe 1:2 - Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father,through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.

"foreknowledge".

"You keep using dat word. I don't t'ink it means what you t'ink it means."
-- Inigo Montoya

What if you don't understand the correct meaning?


From BDAG:

πρόγνωσις, εως, ἡ
1. foreknowledge πρ. λαμβάνειν τελείαν receive complete foreknowledge 1 Cl 44:2.
2. predetermination, of God’s omniscient wisdom and intention (so Alex. Aphr., Fat. 30 p. 200, 31 Br.; Proverbia Aesopi 131 P.; Jdth 9:6; Just., D. 92, 5 πρόγνωσιν ἔχων) w. βουλή Ac 2:23. κατὰ πρόγνωσιν θεοῦ πατρός destined by God the Father (NRSV) 1 Pt 1:2 (Just., D. 134, 4; s. WArndt, CTM 9, 1929, 41–43).—DELG s.v. γιγνώσκω. M-M. TW.
 
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David1701

Well-known member
Through God’s foreknowledge He knew who would accept or reject the good news, but no God did not program or decree some to believe and some to reject truth.
The Bible says "...those whom he foreknew...", not, "...those whom he foreknew would believe...". God set his favourable, familial knowledge upon certain people, in advance - that is what "foreknew" means, when referring to people.

Here's an example.

Jer. 1:5 (KJV) Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
 

Leatherneck0311

Well-known member
Let me put it this way. Do you believe that sinners who are dead in trespasses and sins, hostile toward to God, and are enemies of God, there's enmity between us, will sinners trust and believe God apart from any Grace that changes their hearts of stone, and renews their minds?

BTW, faith is the gift of God as well.​
Nope, God draws
Let me put it this way. Do you believe that sinners who are dead in trespasses and sins, hostile toward to God, and are enemies of God, there's enmity between us, will sinners trust and believe God apart from any Grace that changes their hearts of stone, and renews their minds?

BTW, faith is the gift of God as well.​
No man can come to God on His own it is correct men are born dead in trespass and will sin if they live long enough because all are born with a sin nature.
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Jhn 6:44 - No man can come to me,except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. God provided the GRACE so why isn’t everyone saved ? Those who are saved believe and place their faith in God, and as Jesus taught some heard His message and refused to come to the light, lest their deeds be exposed, because they loved the darkness more than the light. You asked me to provide you a verse which I did yet you did not comment on the following: Elect according to the foreknowledge of God theFather,through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ. God knew who would accept His grace and who would refuse His grace. The elect are based on the foreknowledge of God, God did not reject the lost they rejected Him.
 

Leatherneck0311

Well-known member
The Bible says "...those whom he foreknew...", not, "...those whom he foreknew would believe...". God set his favourable, familial knowledge upon certain people, in advance - that is what "foreknew" means, when referring to people.

Here's an example.

Jer. 1:5 (KJV) Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations.
Actually the verse says elect according to the foreknowledge of God. 1Pe 1:2 - Elect according to the foreknowledge of God theFather,through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:
 

Ladodgers6

Well-known member
Looks you don’t know what you think you know, sadly. How did you miss this ? I know the drill now you will tell me the verse does not mean what it says.
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1Pe 1:2 - Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father,through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied.
Oh, you know the drill, maybe not. You accuse us, of distorting Scripture, but ironically you are the one who keeps purposely misrepresenting it. What does verse 1 say? Who is Peter referring to?
1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,

To those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia, 2according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, in the sanctification of the Spirit, for obedience to Jesus Christ and for sprinkling with his blood:

May grace and peace be multiplied to you.

Also cross-reference Romans 8:30And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

So those whom God foreknew, are the elect.

Do your homework.
 

Ladodgers6

Well-known member
Nope, God draws

No man can come to God on His own it is correct men are born dead in trespass and will sin if they live long enough because all are born with a sin nature.
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Jhn 6:44 - No man can come to me,except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. God provided the GRACE so why isn’t everyone saved ? Those who are saved believe and place their faith in God, and as Jesus taught some heard His message and refused to come to the light, lest their deeds be exposed, because they loved the darkness more than the light. You asked me to provide you a verse which I did yet you did not comment on the following: Elect according to the foreknowledge of God theFather,through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ. God knew who would accept His grace and who would refuse His grace. The elect are based on the foreknowledge of God, God did not reject the lost they rejected Him.
Sure, enemies trust each other, though there's hostility, enmity, hatred. Your quotation of 1 Peter, you are missing verse one, where Peter is talking to the Elect. Also cross reference Romans 8:29-30. (The Elect)
 

Ladodgers6

Well-known member
"foreknowledge".

"You keep using dat word. I don't t'ink it means what you t'ink it means."
-- Inigo Montoya

What if you don't understand the correct meaning?


From BDAG:

πρόγνωσις, εως, ἡ
1. foreknowledge πρ. λαμβάνειν τελείαν receive complete foreknowledge 1 Cl 44:2.
2. predetermination, of God’s omniscient wisdom and intention (so Alex. Aphr., Fat. 30 p. 200, 31 Br.; Proverbia Aesopi 131 P.; Jdth 9:6; Just., D. 92, 5 πρόγνωσιν ἔχων) w. βουλή Ac 2:23. κατὰ πρόγνωσιν θεοῦ πατρός destined by God the Father (NRSV) 1 Pt 1:2 (Just., D. 134, 4; s. WArndt, CTM 9, 1929, 41–43).—DELG s.v. γιγνώσκω. M-M. TW.
He also left out 1 Peter 1:
1Peter, an apostle of Jesus Christ,

To those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,
 

Ladodgers6

Well-known member
Nope, God draws

No man can come to God on His own it is correct men are born dead in trespass and will sin if they live long enough because all are born with a sin nature.
Unchecked Copy Box
Jhn 6:44 - No man can come to me,except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day. God provided the GRACE so why isn’t everyone saved ? Those who are saved believe and place their faith in God, and as Jesus taught some heard His message and refused to come to the light, lest their deeds be exposed, because they loved the darkness more than the light. You asked me to provide you a verse which I did yet you did not comment on the following: Elect according to the foreknowledge of God theFather,through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ. God knew who would accept His grace and who would refuse His grace. The elect are based on the foreknowledge of God, God did not reject the lost they rejected Him.
Read 1 Peter 1:1 To those who are elect exiles of the Dispersion in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia,

Cross Reference Romans 8:29For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those whom he predestined he also called, and those whom he called he also justified, and those whom he justified he also glorified.

So, those he foreknew are the elect.​
 

David1701

Well-known member
Actually the verse says elect according to the foreknowledge of God. 1Pe 1:2 - Elect according to the foreknowledge of God theFather,through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ:
Which makes absolutely no difference to what I posted.

God set his favourable, familial knowledge upon certain people, before the foundation of the world. He then chose those people for salvation, then predestined them to be saved, then, in time, he calls those same people, effectually, to Jesus, then, in time, we will be glorified (at the resurrection). This future glorification is treated as so certain, that it's declared in the past tense (in other words, it's as good as done).
 

Leatherneck0311

Well-known member
Sure, enemies trust each other, though there's hostility, enmity, hatred. Your quotation of 1 Peter, you are missing verse one, where Peter is talking to the Elect. Also cross reference Romans 8:29-30. (The Elect)
How did they become the elect ? That would be because of the foreknowledge of God according to scripture.
 

Ladodgers6

Well-known member
Which makes absolutely no difference to what I posted.

God set his favourable, familial knowledge upon certain people, before the foundation of the world. He then chose those people for salvation, then predestined them to be saved, then, in time, he calls those same people, effectually, to Jesus, then, in time, we will be glorified (at the resurrection). This future glorification is treated as so certain, that it's declared in the past tense (in other words, it's as good as done).
Excellent insight brother!
 
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