The hidden gospel , a mystery !

ReverendRV said:
I do; but I'm not always as invested in CARM as you are...

I've been meaning to ask you how you stay Married, as much as you are here, on your Forum, the other Forums I know about, Golfing, Men's Groups, Zoom, Emailing, Messeging, extra Profiles; whatever ;)

You are doing something right...
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you left out fishing :ROFLMAO:

we have been together since 1976. she likes it that I'm more involved with small groups and discipleship. she encourages me, she has a homeless ministry that she is involved with several days a week and works part time helping the elderly in a memory care community. she works sundays which is the day I usually golf :)

plus we are not the kind of couple that likes to smother each other, we have always been like that , we have our own friends and mutual friends. it makes for a good balance.
 
Christian said:
I know for a calvinist its troubling
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That is simply false.
You no longer have the authority to presume to speak for Calvinists.

Christian said:
This dog has a bone in his jaws thats the dog catcher cannot remove, like a pit bull locked onto :)
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1Kings 20:11 And the king of Israel answered, “Tell him, ‘Let not him who straps on his armor boast himself as he who takes it off.’”
 
Christian said:
AHA

next
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So we are going to look at this great hidden wisdom of God in which we hopefully will find things relevant to our salvation and to our eternal destiny. Awesome! We will definitely need to consider the work of the Holy Spirit and our Lord’s statements about His work which we find recorded in John 16, where He said, ‘When he [the Holy Spirit] is come he will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment.’

You can expound those statements as meaning that it is not a description primarily of the work He does within the soul, but is the work that the Holy Spirit does by His very presence in the world.

The Holy Spirit is concerned about giving the general call of the gospel, and it is a call that is given to all, to those who remain unbelievers and to those who become believers. The Holy Spirit sees to it that that message is delivered and that the proclamation is made, the general, external call.

But of course, we come up against a problem. That call, that offer of the gospel, is made to all, but we must realize that it causes a division.

Do you think that I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division! Luke 12:51

Children of the same parents are brought up in the same home, in the same circumstances, attend the same place of worship, yet one is saved and one is not.

Why this difference? In dealing with the work of the Holy Spirit, you have to face this problem. It is one of the most mysterious problems in connection with the Christian life, the Christian faith. And trying to solve this problem is where all our isms come from.​
 
Theophilus said:
So we are going to look at this great hidden wisdom of God in which we hopefully will find things relevant to our salvation and to our eternal destiny. Awesome! We will definitely need to consider the work of the Holy Spirit and our Lord’s statements about His work which we find recorded in John 16, where He said, ‘When he [the Holy Spirit] is come he will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment.’

You can expound those statements as meaning that it is not a description primarily of the work He does within the soul, but is the work that the Holy Spirit does by His very presence in the world.

The Holy Spirit is concerned about giving the general call of the gospel, and it is a call that is given to all, to those who remain unbelievers and to those who become believers. The Holy Spirit sees to it that that message is delivered and that the proclamation is made, the general, external call.

But of course, we come up against a problem. That call, that offer of the gospel, is made to all, but we must realize that it causes a division.

Do you think that I have come to bring peace to the earth? No, I tell you, but rather division! Luke 12:51

Children of the same parents are brought up in the same home, in the same circumstances, attend the same place of worship, yet one is saved and one is not.

Why this difference? In dealing with the work of the Holy Spirit, you have to face this problem. It is one of the most mysterious problems in connection with the Christian life, the Christian faith. And trying to solve this problem is where all our isms come from.​
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Amen - one child chooses to reject the gospel and continue in their sin while the other child chooses to receive/believe the gospel and turn away from sin to follow Christ. Both children are convicted of their sin by the Holy Spirit as per John 16:8 and one repents while the other rejects the gospel.

Its as simple as that.
 
Christian said:
So my question is how can Gods elect sheep ( the disciples ), the chosen, predestined ones, not understand the gospel ?

They were blinded to the gospel, why ?

Can one be saved without knowing and understanding the gospel ?
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Further proof the Calvinist version of "divine zapping" is needed to believe. The natural man can't do it.

Thanks for the very deterministic OP.
 
Christian said:
So my question is how can Gods elect sheep ( the disciples ), the chosen, predestined ones, not understand the gospel ?

They were blinded to the gospel, why ?

Can one be saved without knowing and understanding the gospel ?
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First, the opening post appears to be committing an anachronism. This is an error in time judgment. The passages in Luke are dealing with a different time frame than the Pauline passages cited. In short, Jesus had not died yet; He had not been crucified yet. Jesus had not been raised from the dead yet. Now, granted, Jesus did tell His disciples at least three times before the cross that He was going to die. However, my point is very simple, what is recorded in Luke deals with a different era (before the cross). The Pauline passages deal with a clearer revelation due to its later date, where we have already moved past Pentecost, past the Gentiles' inclusion, past a great deal of missionary journeys, etc. Hence, the content of the gospel has been significantly clarified and codified from a revelational standpoint.

Second, "how can Gods elect sheep ( the disciples ), the chosen, predestined ones, not understand the gospel ?" God hadn't revealed it to them yet. The answer really is that simple. Contrary to the mountain of misconceptions, falsehoods, and blatant lies paraded as "Calvinism," God's "before creation" decisions impact creation and His elect in the creational timeline. Hence, the elect come to understand the gospel in time. Hence, if God's elect do not understand the gospel at one point in time, then God has not revealed His gospel to them yet.

Third, "why were they blinded to the gospel?" As I've mentioned to you before, God's actions in creation (providence) is often multi-causal. In other words, causality is complex at times. One could answer the question with "God hadn't revealed the gospel to them yet." Another answer might be because of their depravity. One could answer in a cultural way and point to the common misconception of seeing the Messiah as the Lion rather than the lamb Who was right there before them.

Fourth, "Can one be saved without knowing and understanding the gospel?" If Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and on one comes to the Father except through Him, and if we are saved by grace through faith in the crucified and raised Messiah who died as our substituted propitiating God's wrath, then I have to answer the question with a "no." For there is no other name under heaven whereby one can be saved. In contrast to liberals and the exclusive inclusivism (ironic) position, Christianity is exclusive. Wide is the way that leads to destruction and narrow is the way to Jesus.
 
His clay said:
First, the opening post appears to be committing an anachronism. This is an error in time judgment. The passages in Luke are dealing with a different time frame than the Pauline passages cited. In short, Jesus had not died yet; He had not been crucified yet. Jesus had not been raised from the dead yet. Now, granted, Jesus did tell His disciples at least three times before the cross that He was going to die. However, my point is very simple, what is recorded in Luke deals with a different era (before the cross). The Pauline passages deal with a clearer revelation due to its later date, where we have already moved past Pentecost, past the Gentiles' inclusion, past a great deal of missionary journeys, etc. Hence, the content of the gospel has been significantly clarified and codified from a revelational standpoint.

Second, "how can Gods elect sheep ( the disciples ), the chosen, predestined ones, not understand the gospel ?" God hadn't revealed it to them yet. The answer really is that simple. Contrary to the mountain of misconceptions, falsehoods, and blatant lies paraded as "Calvinism," God's "before creation" decisions impact creation and His elect in the creational timeline. Hence, the elect come to understand the gospel in time. Hence, if God's elect do not understand the gospel at one point in time, then God has not revealed His gospel to them yet.

Third, "why were they blinded to the gospel?" As I've mentioned to you before, God's actions in creation (providence) is often multi-causal. In other words, causality is complex at times. One could answer the question with "God hadn't revealed the gospel to them yet." Another answer might be because of their depravity. One could answer in a cultural way and point to the common misconception of seeing the Messiah as the Lion rather than the lamb Who was right there before them.

Fourth, "Can one be saved without knowing and understanding the gospel?" If Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life, and on one comes to the Father except through Him, and if we are saved by grace through faith in the crucified and raised Messiah who died as our substituted propitiating God's wrath, then I have to answer the question with a "no." For there is no other name under heaven whereby one can be saved. In contrast to liberals and the exclusive inclusivism (ironic) position, Christianity is exclusive. Wide is the way that leads to destruction and narrow is the way to Jesus.
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Thanks and would you agree they were not born again until Pentecost ?
 
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