You need some new put-downs, JohnnyClassic head in the sand denial.
You need some new put-downs, JohnnyClassic head in the sand denial.
Your post#
It is noted in the manuscripts where the change was made by copyists.
The Biblia Hebraica Stuttgartensia, R Kittel, 1984 Margin at verse Gen 18:3 has a Masoretic note with the Hebrew letters Koph Lamed Dalet (134) indicating the first of 134 instances where pre-Masoretic copyists removed the name YHWH from the Hebrew text, replacing it with the word Lord.
And so:
Gn 18:3 Then he said: "YHWH, if, now, I have found favor in Y'all's [**] eyes, please do not pass by Y'all's [**] servant. [Y'all's indicates plural possessive addressees] Masorite changed from YHWH to Adonay. [**] nouns marked with second person plural suffixes in alternate readings.
Also see: Brown Driver Briggs Hebrew Lexicon, page 11b
a. my Lord ... (Sam. YHWH) elsewhere in Hex, J; Gn 18 [3(?).27.30.31.32 19.2.18(?)
Your post #137
The alternate translation in the footnote of BHS does translate to Abraham saying to the LORD YHWH y'alls eyes which means Abraham is speaking to more than one person.
That means the LORD is more than one person. And that's not even considering the BHS reading for YHWH.
But does that matter now? It refutes your assertion that the LORD could be Jesus.
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Is the following true? [Y'all's indicates plural possessive addressees]
Genesis 18:3
Your =אַתָּה= pronoun, suffixed, second person, masculine, singular
Sight = עֵינֶ֔י = noun, common, dual, construct
Your =אַתָּה= pronoun, suffixed, second person, masculine, singular
Servant = noun, common, singular, construct
In 18:3 every noun, pronoun, and verb is singular. Sight is dual. Nothing in the verse hints at 'plural possessive addressees'.
18:4 We find plurality.
vs 4 Your = אַתֶּם = pronoun, suffixed, second person, masculine, plural = 'you all'
vs 4 Feet = רֶ֫גֶל =noun, common, dual, construct
vs 4 'wash' and 'rest' are plural verbs.
Hebrew, grammatical rules state that the noun should agree with the verb in gender and number.
If Abraham is addressing the same person or persons in both verse 3 and 4, then the verbs in verses 3 and 4 should either be singular or plural. Why is verse 3 singular and verse 4 plural? Abraham is addressing one individual in verse 3 and three individuals in verse 4. It's that simple. Moses is recording simple hospitality.
Be it Adonai or YHWH in verse 3 it does not contradict my original statement that Abraham was addressing Jesus.
I will do your homework again. ----Homework = test your ideas before you post them.
Then Lot said to them, “Please, no, my lords!
How is this the smoking gun?
Notice
18:22 Then the men turned away from there and went toward Sodom, but Abraham still stood before the Lord [YHWH].
Moses is differentiating between YHWH and the other two angels.
And if that is the case Lot could only be addressing the two angels as Adonia
19:2 And he said, “Here now, my lords [adonia]...
19:13 For we will destroy this place, because the outcry against them has grown great before the face of the Lord [YHWH], and the Lord {YWHW} has sent us to destroy it.”
18 Then Lot said to them, “Please, no, my lords! [Adonia]
Notice 19:13 the angels state that YHWH sent them, and the outcry against the city has grown great before the face of YHWH. Simple, the angles are stating that they are not YHWH, for if they were YHWH or any manifestation or what have you, it would read something similar to.
"For we will destroy this place, because the outcry against them has grown great before our face and we came to destroy it.”
Suggest you purchase an exegetical guide.
Simply quote a single word or action by Jesus in the Old Testament. Find us the pre-existent Son of God at the right hand of God or God the Word with God in the beginning of creation.Classic head in the sand denial.
In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.Simply quote a single word or action by Jesus in the Old Testament. Find us the pre-existent Son of God at the right hand of God or God the Word with God in the beginning of creation.
Don't muddy the waters by adding unnecessary noise. That doesn't show what I asked.In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple.
12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also amthe last. 13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together. 14 All ye, assemble yourselves, and hear; which among them hath declared these things? The LORD hath loved him: he will do his pleasure on Babylon, and his arm shall be on the Chaldeans. 15 I, even I, have spoken; yea, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous. 16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.
10 “Sing for joy and be glad, O daughter of Zion; for behold, I am coming and I will dwell in your midst,” declares Yahweh. 11 “And many nations will join themselves to Yahweh in that day and will become My people. Then I will dwell in your midst, and you will know that Yahweh of hosts has sent Me to you.
Muddy waters by adding noise?Don't muddy the waters by adding unnecessary noise. That doesn't show what I asked.
It is the Bible so it must be Biblical.What you have now discovered, whether you will publicly admit it or not, is that your theology is not Biblical.
Simply quote a single word or action by Jesus in the Old Testament. Find us the pre-existent Son of God at the right hand of God or God the Word with God in the beginning of creation.
I consider the mental awareness of learning and understanding to be sufficient to establish a real personal presence.
No such thing unless you truly have the Holy Spirit of God dwelling within you.
You can read the Bible and learn for the next ten thousand years but without the Spirit of God in you, you really have gained nothing.
Wrong again. I use NKJV, in the Foward it states that the DSS was consulted.
Really, I have never come across YHWH in the NT when reading Greek, or in all the years on this forum 20+ that someone argued, or read any commentary, that stated YHWH was omitted from the NT. In fact your go to translation 'The Scriptures' uses Elohim vs YHWH.You are probably aware then that the forward of the NKJV states that they render the covenant name of God (YHWH) as LORD in both the OT and NT.
Do you agree with that and do you know how they decide on what instances in the NT?
Really, I have never come across YHWH in the NT when reading Greek, or in all the years on this forum 20+ that someone argued, or read any commentary, that stated YHWH was omitted from the NT. In fact your go to translation 'The Scriptures' uses Elohim vs YHWH.
This is starting to smell like Watchtower Bible Society jargon.
I asked you this because you identified the NKJV as the Bible you read.
You mentioned the Forward with respect the DSS.
So I ask you about their practice of identifying YHWH in the NT with LORD all caps.
And so I ask and ask again:
Do you agree with that and do you know how they decide on what instances in the NT?
In the NT Theos carrying the definite article, unless modified, is always YHWH. YHWH is not used in the NT or is it found in any of the early manuscripts. Now if you have evidence that YHWH was found in the early MSS please share with us.I asked you this because you identified the NKJV as the Bible you read.
You mentioned the Forward with respect the DSS.
So I ask you about their practice of identifying YHWH in the NT with LORD all caps.
And so I ask and ask again:
Do you agree with that and do you know how they decide on what instances in the NT?
Although the NT manuscripts that have come down to us do not contain the personal name of God that was mentioned more than 6,000 times in the OT, if we are honest with ourselves, we will recognize that it must have been written there in the manuscripts originally written by inspiration. For example, when Jesus read Isaiah 61:1,2 directly from the Hebrew text in the synagogue.
Is. 61:1 The spirit of the Sovereign Lord Jehovah is upon me,
Because Jehovah anointed me to declare good news to the meek.
He sent me to bind up the brokenhearted,
To proclaim liberty to the captives
And the wide opening of the eyes to the prisoners,
2To proclaim the year of Jehovah’s goodwill (...)
Luke 4:16 He then went to Nazʹa·reth, where he had been brought up, and according to his custom on the Sabbath day, he entered the synagogue and stood up to read. 17 So the scroll of the prophet Isaiah was handed to him, and he opened the scroll and found the place where it was written: 18 “Jehovah’s spirit is upon me, because he anointed me to declare good news to the poor. He sent me to proclaim liberty to the captives and a recovery of sight to the blind, to send the crushed ones away free, 19 to preach Jehovah’s acceptable year.” 20 With that he rolled up the scroll, handed it back to the attendant, and sat down; and the eyes of all in the synagogue were intently fixed on him. 21 Then he began to say to them: “Today this scripture that you just heard is fulfilled.”
It is not at all incorrect for a Bible translator to place the name of Jehovah in this passage, since Jesus evidently read it directly from the Hebrew text, and Luke must have recorded it as it was read.
In fact, although it was previously thought that the LXX did not contain the personal name of God,
older manuscripts were recently discovered showing that it did. So the citations of Jehovah's name from the LXX version of the OT by many Christian preachers in the NT must have been quoted without fear, just as the original writers of those inspired texts must have written it.
Rom. 4:4 That being so, what will we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2 For instance, if Abraham was declared righteous as a result of works, he would have reason to boast, but not with God. 3 For what does the scripture say? “Abraham put faith in Jehovah, and it was counted to him as righteousness.” (Verbatim quote from Gen. 15:6) 4 Now to the man who works, his pay is not counted as an undeserved kindness but as something owed to him. 5 On the other hand, to the man who does not work but puts faith in the One who declares the ungodly one righteous, his faith is counted as righteousness. 6 Just as David also speaks of the happiness of the man to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: 7 “Happy are those whose lawless deeds have been pardoned and whose sins have been covered; 8 happy is the man whose sin Jehovah will by no means take into account.” (Verbatim quote from Psal. 32:1,2)
The Jehovah's Witness Bible translation is not the only NT translation that includes Jehovah's personal name for obvious reasons.
You can consult any Hebrew NT.
Interestingly, those who resent God's personal name, Jehovah, being placed where for obvious reasons it originally was in the NT,
blatantly quote many OT passages that originally contain it
from versions that blatantly removed it.
What's worse? Put it about 200 times where for obvious reasons it should have been, or delete it more than 6000 times from where everyone knows it was?