The Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth.

squirrelyguy

Well-known member
And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.” (Gen. 6:6-7)

How does this make any sense if exhaustive divine determinism is true?
 
What do you mean by "divine determinism"? Determinism is not uniformly asserted within Calvinism or Arminianism (or Traditionalism) so please define the term as you mean it to be understood for the making sense of Genesis 6:6-7.

Why does God feeling sorrowful about something preclude divine determinism?
 
What do you mean by "divine determinism"? Determinism is not uniformly asserted within Calvinism or Arminianism (or Traditionalism) so please define the term as you mean it to be understood for the making sense of Genesis 6:6-7.

Why does God feeling sorrowful about something preclude divine determinism?
By exhaustive divine determinism, I mean the notion that God actively determines all things which come about; He is not merely passive in anything. Thus, if God feels sorrowful over the extent to which mankind became wicked, He would be feeling sorrowful over something that He actively caused to happen.
 
And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.” (Gen. 6:6-7)

How does this make any sense if exhaustive divine determinism is true?

So you only accept Biblical teachings if you think it "makes sense" to you?
 
And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.” (Gen. 6:6-7)

How does this make any sense if exhaustive divine determinism is true?
And how does it make sense if He's omniscient, omnipotent, infallible, or immutable also.
Because it's anthropomorphic language.
 
By exhaustive divine determinism, I mean the notion that God actively determines all things which come about; He is not merely passive in anything. Thus, if God feels sorrowful over the extent to which mankind became wicked, He would be feeling sorrowful over something that He actively caused to happen.
What do you mean by "all things"? When you say, "that come about" do you mean God determines all the incremental consitutent, conditions and causes that bring a thing about? Do you think there are Calvinists here who believe God is making them write the posts that will be posted here in this thread, and they have absolutely no ability to anything other than post what exactly is posted?

Can you identify the Calvinists here who you believe think God made humanity be bad such that He would feel sorrowful about what He'd done?

Let me also ask, since this thread is just getting started, are you aware the kind of rigid determinism espoused in this op is not the majority view within Calvinism? If you are aware of that, then is thread purposefully intended to be a discuss specifically about an outlying position, or do you think the belief in God actively determining all things is the mainstream unified view within Calvinism?
 
And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.” (Gen. 6:6-7)
did God directly make them the way they was that God didn't like them?
 
And the Lord was sorry that He had made man on the earth, and He was grieved in His heart. So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.” (Gen. 6:6-7)

How does this make any sense if exhaustive divine determinism is true?
Anthropomorphism is a thing
 
So you only accept Biblical teachings if you think it "makes sense" to you?
I am fairly certain that the reason you cannot accept the notion that God changes His mind is because it doesn't "make sense" to you, despite a wealth of direct Scriptural references indicating that He does. I am not of the opinion that it somehow debases the Bible to interpret it in a way that makes sense to us.
 
And how does it make sense if He's omniscient, omnipotent, infallible, or immutable also.
Because it's anthropomorphic language.
I don't share all of your assumptions about God's attributes. I say we let God define Himself and bind ourselves to think of Him accordingly. It seems to me that there really isn't much of a principled difference between the Calvinist view of God and the attempt by modern theologians to blur God's masculinity so that He can be referred to as a he/she/it. In fact, those modern feminist theologians claim that God's masculine gender is nothing more than an anthropomorphism with just as much certainty as the Calvinists claim the same regarding His change of mind.

As for me I believe in letting God choose His own pronouns.
 
Do you think there are Calvinists here who believe God is making them write the posts that will be posted here in this thread, and they have absolutely no ability to anything other than post what exactly is posted?
Yes.
Let me also ask, since this thread is just getting started, are you aware the kind of rigid determinism espoused in this op is not the majority view within Calvinism? If you are aware of that, then is thread purposefully intended to be a discuss specifically about an outlying position, or do you think the belief in God actively determining all things is the mainstream unified view within Calvinism?
I don't know if it's the majority view of Calvinists; but I am certain it's majority view among actual pastors who are Calvinists, as well as among the seminary professors who are Calvinists as well as anyone else who is in some kind of vocational ministry and is a Calvinist. John Piper is about as mainstream as you can get, and I don't think there's any wiggle room whatsoever in his view of how exhaustive God's determinism stretches. The only reason I hesitate to say it's the majority view among all Calvinists is because of the laypeople in Reformed leaning congregations. I'm not confident that a majority of those laypeople are willing to accept this notion of exhaustive divine determinism, even if they accept the 5 points and otherwise agree with their pastor on everything else. If you ask the average layperson in a Reformed congregation if they believe that God ordains the rape of children by sex traffickers they will probably give a firm "No!", but if you ask the same question of their pastor, you will either get a carefully nuanced "Yes" or a firm "Yes" depending on how cage-stage he is.
 
I don't share all of your assumptions about God's attributes. I say we let God define Himself and bind ourselves to think of Him accordingly.

... unless you feel that God's defining Himself "doesn't make sense" to you.
Then you're free to reject God's definition of Himself, right?

It seems to me that there really isn't much of a principled difference between the Calvinist view of God and the attempt by modern theologians to blur God's masculinity so that He can be referred to as a he/she/it.

Worthless falllacy of "guilt by assocation"

In fact, those modern feminist theologians claim that God's masculine gender is nothing more than an anthropomorphism with just as much certainty as the Calvinists claim the same regarding His change of mind.

So you agree with the Mormons that God has a penis?
 
Anthropomorphism is a thing
But is that an intelligible answer to the problem posed? See my reply to another poster about how feminist theologians try to make God out to be a he/she/it based on the idea that masculine pronouns in the Bible are anthropomorphisms. I believe in letting God choose His own pronouns. What's the principled difference between what those feminist theologians are doing with God's gender and what you're doing regarding His mind?
 
Worthless falllacy of "guilt by assocation"
See below...
So you agree with the Mormons that God has a penis?
How is that not an example of the same thing you just accused me of?

But to answer your question directly: I do not know if God has a penis, but I don't see any reason to think He can't have a penis. Are there any theological ramifications to this question that are as significant as the ramifications of believing that He changes His mind? If you can give me one then I'll think more on your question.
 
How is that not an example of the same thing you just accused me of?

So you can do it, but I can't (Prov. 26:5)?
Double standards much?

But to answer your question directly: I do not know if God has a penis, but I don't see any reason to think He can't have a penis. Are there any theological ramifications to this question that are as significant as the ramifications of believing that He changes His mind? If you can give me one then I'll think more on your question.

Well, let's see....

Num. 23:19 God is not man, that he should lie,
or a son of man, that he should change his mind.
Has he said, and will he not do it?
Or has he spoken, and will he not fulfill it?


1 Sam. 15:29 And also the Glory of Israel will not lie or have regret, for he is not a man, that he should have regret.”

Job 9:32 For he is not a man, as I am, that I might answer him,
that we should come to trial together.


These are referring to God not being human, not about him not being male.

God is not a creature, He is the Creator.
 
... unless you feel that God's defining Himself "doesn't make sense" to you.
Then you're free to reject God's definition of Himself, right?



Worthless falllacy of "guilt by assocation"



So you agree with the Mormons that God has a penis?
Do you believe Jesus is God and a male human? If so then He has male organs like every other human male.
 
Back
Top