The Notion that Unregenerate Men Can Believe the Gospel on Their Own is Foolishness ...

Howie said:
Pretty much (Rom 1:28; cf 3:10-18).
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Your verses.....Rom. 1 is about disobedient children of God while Rom. 3 is about the unregenerate children of men.
See that's a problem right there, that is , disobedient children of God can act just like the unregenerate.
Likewise, the unregenerate can act like , even look like the regenerate child of God. Take Judas Iscariot for example, most probably thought he was regenerate. But he wasn't. And there are others like that. That's a way Satan can weave his deceptions.....have an unregenerate learn enough Bible truth, ascend into authority appear to be a man of God and deceive the children of God.
Question....were some of the Pharisees unregenerate?
 
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fltom said:
Sorry but I am arguing bible, and you are arguing for a theology

which is why you do not deal with scripture


John 7:38–39 (KJV 1900) — 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Note out of belly indicates the Spirit would be in them.

Receiving the spirit refers to having the Spirit in them.

should receive: for the Holy Spirit was not yet given

In the future, they would receive the Spirit that is after Christ was glorified.

And just cite your theology while ignoring scripture
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You're arguing for a theology, Tom.

Clearly faith requires an antcedent work of God, which is regeneration.

If that isn't eternally true, then God is liar.
 
Oldsaint24 said:
Your verses.....Rom. 1 is about disobedient children of God while Rom. 3 is about the unregenerate children of men.
See that's a problem right there, that is , disobedient children of God can act just like the unregenerate.
Likewise, the unregenerate can act like , even look like the regenerate child of God. Take Judas Iscariot for example, most probably thought he was regenerate. But he wasn't. And there are others like that. That's a way Satan can weave his deceptions.....have an unregenerate learn enough Bible truth, ascend into authority appear to be a man of God and deceive the children of God.
Question....were some of the Pharisees unregenerate?
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You are correct. Unregenerate humans are characterized by disobedience. Romans 1 tells us their disobedience is willful as it actively suppresses the truth of God's existence.

Wheat among the tares is also told to us by Jesus.

Regarding the Pharisees, all who refused to believe were unregenerate and not elect.
 
fltom said:
Sorry but I am arguing bible, and you are arguing for a theology

which is why you do not deal with scripture


John 7:38–39 (KJV 1900) — 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Note out of belly indicates the Spirit would be in them.

Receiving the spirit refers to having the Spirit in them.

should receive: for the Holy Spirit was not yet given

In the future, they would receive the Spirit that is after Christ was glorified.

And just cite your theology while ignoring scripture
Click to expand...
You're arguing for a theology, Tom.

Clearly faith requires an antcedent work of God, which is regeneration.

If that isn't eternally true, then God is liar.
 
fltom said:
During the Old Testament era
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Gal 3:8 ... The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “All the nations will be blessed in you.”
 
Howie said:
Gal 3:8 ... The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, “All the nations will be blessed in you.”
Click to expand...
Says nothing about regeneration

and you still have not addressed the scriptures which show

Regeneration was a future promise Ezekiel 36:26ff Jeremiah 31:31ff

God had not given them eyes to see, ears to hear Deuteronomy 29:4

That the Holy Spirit was not yet given John 7:38, 39
 
Howie said:
You're arguing for a theology, Tom.

Clearly faith requires an antcedent work of God, which is regeneration.

If that isn't eternally true, then God is liar.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I am arguing scripture which you are not addressing

  - The Notion that Unregenerate Men Can Believe the Gospel on Their Own is Foolishness ...

Pretty much (Rom 1:28; cf 3:10-18). Your verses.....Rom. 1 is about disobedient children of God while Rom. 3 is about the unregenerate children of men. See that's a problem right there, that is , disobedient children of God can act just like the unregenerate. Likewise, the unregenerate can act...
forums.carm.org
 
fltom said:
Says nothing about regeneration

and you still have not addressed the scriptures which show

Regeneration was a future promise Ezekiel 36:26ff Jeremiah 31:31ff

God had not given them eyes to see, ears to hear Deuteronomy 29:4

That the Holy Spirit was not yet given John 7:38, 39
Click to expand...
Lol .. your doctrine is informed by your feelings.
 
fltom said:
Sorry, I am arguing scripture which you are not addressing

  - The Notion that Unregenerate Men Can Believe the Gospel on Their Own is Foolishness ...

Pretty much (Rom 1:28; cf 3:10-18). Your verses.....Rom. 1 is about disobedient children of God while Rom. 3 is about the unregenerate children of men. See that's a problem right there, that is , disobedient children of God can act just like the unregenerate. Likewise, the unregenerate can act...
forums.carm.org
Click to expand...
You're arguing for a theology, Tom.

Clearly faith requires an antcedent work of God, which is regeneration.

If that isn't eternally true, then God is liar.
 
Howie said:
You're arguing for a theology, Tom.

Clearly faith requires an antcedent work of God, which is regeneration.

If that isn't eternally true, then God is liar.
Click to expand...
Sorry, you are citing your theology while ignoring the scriptures, I posted.

  - The Notion that Unregenerate Men Can Believe the Gospel on Their Own is Foolishness ...

Pretty much (Rom 1:28; cf 3:10-18). Your verses.....Rom. 1 is about disobedient children of God while Rom. 3 is about the unregenerate children of men. See that's a problem right there, that is , disobedient children of God can act just like the unregenerate. Likewise, the unregenerate can act...
forums.carm.org

  - The Notion that Unregenerate Men Can Believe the Gospel on Their Own is Foolishness ...

1 Cor 18 ... For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved, it is the power of God. Nuff said, but just in case, see also (Rom 8:7-8). Is an unregenerate man void of a brain incapable of thinking?
forums.carm.org

Forget your theology, and heed scripture
 
Howie said:
Lol .. your doctrine is informed by your feelings.
Click to expand...
Nope my theology is formed by scripture, yours by the TULIP

  - The Notion that Unregenerate Men Can Believe the Gospel on Their Own is Foolishness ...

Pretty much (Rom 1:28; cf 3:10-18). Your verses.....Rom. 1 is about disobedient children of God while Rom. 3 is about the unregenerate children of men. See that's a problem right there, that is , disobedient children of God can act just like the unregenerate. Likewise, the unregenerate can act...
forums.carm.org

  - The Notion that Unregenerate Men Can Believe the Gospel on Their Own is Foolishness ...

1 Cor 18 ... For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved, it is the power of God. Nuff said, but just in case, see also (Rom 8:7-8). Is an unregenerate man void of a brain incapable of thinking?
forums.carm.org
 
fltom said:
Sorry, you are citing your theology while ignoring the scriptures, I posted.

  - The Notion that Unregenerate Men Can Believe the Gospel on Their Own is Foolishness ...

Pretty much (Rom 1:28; cf 3:10-18). Your verses.....Rom. 1 is about disobedient children of God while Rom. 3 is about the unregenerate children of men. See that's a problem right there, that is , disobedient children of God can act just like the unregenerate. Likewise, the unregenerate can act...
forums.carm.org

  - The Notion that Unregenerate Men Can Believe the Gospel on Their Own is Foolishness ...

1 Cor 18 ... For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved, it is the power of God. Nuff said, but just in case, see also (Rom 8:7-8). Is an unregenerate man void of a brain incapable of thinking?
forums.carm.org

Forget your theology, and heed scripture
Click to expand...
The readers will decide.
 
fltom said:
Nope my theology is formed by scripture, yours by the TULIP

  - The Notion that Unregenerate Men Can Believe the Gospel on Their Own is Foolishness ...

Pretty much (Rom 1:28; cf 3:10-18). Your verses.....Rom. 1 is about disobedient children of God while Rom. 3 is about the unregenerate children of men. See that's a problem right there, that is , disobedient children of God can act just like the unregenerate. Likewise, the unregenerate can act...
forums.carm.org

  - The Notion that Unregenerate Men Can Believe the Gospel on Their Own is Foolishness ...

1 Cor 18 ... For the word of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved, it is the power of God. Nuff said, but just in case, see also (Rom 8:7-8). Is an unregenerate man void of a brain incapable of thinking?
forums.carm.org
Click to expand...
The readers will decide.
 
Howie said:
Regarding the Pharisees, all who refused to believe were unregenerate and not elect.
Click to expand...
My point about some of the Pharisees is that they had knowledge concerning God and the Torah. Looked like regenerate children of God.....but we're unregenerate nonetheless.
Makes me wonder whether Calvin was regenerate or unregenerate. I don't know which. He was either a deceived, disobedient child of God or a deceiving unregenerate child of man. Like I said.... I don't know which, could go either way for me.
 
Oldsaint24 said:
My point about some of the Pharisees is that they had knowledge concerning God and the Torah. Looked like regenerate children of God.....but we're unregenerate nonetheless.
Makes me wonder whether Calvin was regenerate or unregenerate.
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Much of what you say makes me wonder about you. ?

Oldsaint24 said:
I don't know which. He was either a deceived, disobedient child of God or a deceiving unregenerate child of man. Like I said.... I don't know which, could go either way for me.
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I had an unbelieving, unrengenerate friend who was very versed in scripture, who believed the Scripture was full of interesting stories, and he never believed a bit of it.

He was married, with kids, and died alone in a motel room of a drug overdose about 22 years ago
 
Howie said:
Much of what you say makes me wonder about you. ?
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You have that wrong. Stop wondering about me, rather wonder about what I say.
No one, absolutely no one has refuted anything I have written with scripture. That is what should make you wonder.
 
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