The Notion that Unregenerate Men Can Believe the Gospel on Their Own is Foolishness ...
- Thread starter Howie
- Start date
Manfred
Well-known member
No you are not.
Your pride may make you believe you do but you don't.
Denying that no one is saved apart from the righteousness of Christ is pure heresy, and trying to pit scripture against scripture is a sure sign of a cultic behavior.
Righteous Job refutes you:
Job 42:1 Then Job answered the LORD and said:
Job 42:2 “I know that you can do all things, and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted.
Job 42:3 ‘Who is this that hides counsel without knowledge?’ Therefore I have uttered what I did not understand, things too wonderful for me, which I did not know.
Job 42:4 ‘Hear, and I will speak; I will question you, and you make it known to me.’
Job 42:5 I had heard of you by the hearing of the ear, but now my eye sees you;
Job 42:6 therefore I despise myself, and repent in dust and ashes.”
Manfred
Well-known member
So you think we have to believe you because you say so?
2Co 3:3 And you show that you are a letter from Christ delivered by us, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
The above verse has nothing to do with apostleship, but all to do with glorifying God
2Co 3:4 Such is the confidence that we have through Christ toward God.
The above verse has nothing to do with apostleship, but all to do with glorifying God
2Co 3:5 Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God,
The above verse has nothing to do with apostleship, but all to do with glorifying God
2Co 3:6 who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.
If you exclude yourself as being sufficient to be a minister of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit, then you have ZERO authority and absolutely no one should be listening to any of your teachings, for your authority lies in man and not in God!
I use the parable of the sower to show the Calvinist doctrine of total inability is false.
Others may believe and be regenerated
Example: Cornelius and his house
So save your false claims
God does not transfer, infuse, install, irresistibly cause one to believe
He gives opportunity, occasion, and influence for faith
Manfred
Well-known member
And you do not have a precious theology right Bob?
And you are wrong btw. Rebuttals are totally ignored, and logic is thrown out of the window on so many occasions.
The self, and the love of promoting the ability of man to be able to move first and to have God react based on their moving, is nothing more than bringing God down to the level of man.
Arminianism restricts God to the will of man, and presumes that the purposes of God's can be thwarted.
(Job 42:2) “I know that you can do all things, and that no purpose of yours can be thwarted.
Manfred
Well-known member
When do you presume God starts drawing the elect!
When did He start to draw Cornelius, Lydia et al. to Himself!
None of them had an understanding regarding how to be saved, and it was not their righteousness that saved them.
Manfred
Well-known member
That is wishful thinking.
You diminish God and think you prove others false. You and your theology make yourself sovereign over the living God.
People can believe anything they want, and if you cared to look at the world you may see it. Without understanding that comes by the opening of the heart and mind by God Himself, your belief is false.
I think you need to learn to read scripture, and remember you highlighted 2co 3:6
look at 2Co 3:5,6
Where do you see anything about a lack of ability to believe?
Manfred
Well-known member
God is a bad/ineffective influencer in the majority of cases according to the self-righteous fltom!
Oldsaint24
Well-known member
Jesus was unorthodox , didn't follow the traditions of the established orthodoxy. And the vast majority missed the truth.
Oh , and no one has proven me wrong.
You do know there is going to be a great falling away, don't you? Only those who are able to fall away......fall away.
Kinda like all those rejecting the truth I write.... don't ya think? Falling away and not even realizing it. You want to know who else fell away? The vast majority of the orthodoxy of Jesus' time, and they didn't realize it either....oh the irony.
Manfred
Well-known member
The letter kills. Without the Spirit there is no life in the letter.
Atheists debate the Bible every day. They are devoid of any spiritual discernment and mock God, yet your theology claims they have full knowledge of the truth.
Oxymoronic!
The fact you cannot rebut it shows it is more than wishful thinking, and you are in denial
It has nothing at all to diminishing God.
It is your theology in fact which diminishes the love, justice, and holiness of God
Sorry, I stated nothing about self-righteousness. Nor did I say anything about the majority of cases.
Do you have anything besides falsehoods to offer?
As usual, you display difficulty in accurately handling what you read
First, no one has denied the righteousness of Christ or that it is critical for atonement
The issue is imputation
What is it that is counted for righteousness
Scripture does not leave us to guess at it
Romans 4 (KJV 1900) — 1 What shall we say then that Abraham our father, as pertaining to the flesh, hath found? 2 For if Abraham were justified by works, he hath whereof to glory; but not before God. 3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness. 4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt. 5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Twice in this passage, we are told what is counted (imputed) for righteousness,
It is our faith
on the other hand, your verse says nothing at all about the imputation of Christ righteousness or that it is transferred to you.
Reformedguy
Well-known member
Reformedguy
Well-known member
He would know what it would take to convert each and every individual. Tom says ya but He prefers to be ineffectual. ?
Reformedguy
Well-known member
So they could not see the kingdom of heaven then. "Unless one is born again he cannot see the kingdom of heaven."
You're not Jesus, but it's good to see you realize you're not orthodox either. To what church do you belong?
You among them
No one ever will prove you wrong; isn't that correct?
It's been here awhile.
The non-elect.
Just as I said, no one will ever prove you wrong ...
Irony? No, Predictable. They were a disobedient and prideful lot, except for God's remnant among them.