The Provisionist Free Creature View Makes God A Slave!

Sketo said:
And on your view this “independent knowledge” would also include God’s on “future” actions correct?

You have God‘s knowledge of his own future actions “independent of His determinations”

Now you have neither God nor man having any other choice but to do what the “independent knowledge” has determined for both of their future.

You have made immutable “independent knowledge” the puppet master of the future of both God and man such that they had no choice in determining the future to be different.
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The future is libertarianly decided between God and man along the way. ...

God's knowledge of it is merely a lucky guess ie a miracle by nature of His attributes. A guess cannot determine anything.

Foreknowledge does not dictate the future nor visa versa.

But your view has that God cannot other than unilaterally predetetmine us, **making our decisions pantheistic** with God. Our arguments end up God arguing with Himself.
 
Sketo said:
@Reformedguy


?God “set the conditions” after already “knowing who would fulfill that criteria”…

Doesn’t that also mean God knew who wouldn’t “fulfill” that criteria before he “set the condition”?

How is this not Provisionist Predestination to hell?

…
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This is a God tom tells us wishes to save the whole world. I wonder why He simply did not set conditions the whole world would meet and then toms universalism would be true.
 
Sketo said:
It’s not my claim. It’s the logical conclusion of your claim:
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Nope its your leap of logic unsupported by anything
Sketo said:
Your words “he did so knowing who”

…


Then fltom contradicts himself implying God didn’t know who wouldn’t:




So fltom admits on Provisionism God did not know who wouldn’t “fulfill”…

…
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Again your confusion is great

read slowly what was posted

Nope
It was God who set the conditions upon which he would save and he did so knowing who would fulfill that criteria so your claim of preprogrammed is rather bizarre.

Hello

You statement is the opposite of what I claimed.
 
fltom said:
Nope its your leap of logic unsupported by anything

Again your confusion is great

read slowly what was posted

Nope
It was God who set the conditions upon which he would save and he did so knowing who would fulfill that criteria so your claim of preprogrammed is rather bizarre.

Hello

You statement is the opposite of what I claimed.
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Your denial of your own view is great

On Provisionism God can not determine anything contrary to THE knowledge God did not determine.

On Provisionism God is no more "free" to do other than eternally set "knowledge" than man is.

When is man "free" to do other than what God eternally knew man will do?

When is God "free" to do other than what God eternally knew God would do?

You can't see the problem your own system creates.

...
 
Sketo said:
Your denial of your own view is great

On Provisionism God can not determine anything contrary to THE knowledge God did not determine.

On Provisionism God is no more "free" to do other than eternally set "knowledge" than man is.

When is man "free" to do other than what God eternally knew man will do?

When is God "free" to do other than what God eternally knew God would do?

You can't see the problem your own system creates.
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God's knowledge is libertarianly determined between God and man along the way, not beforehand. God created only the progressive present, not the future. The fact that foreknowledge is correct is an accident ie a miracle. God is miraculous.

In your case God has not other choice but to predetetmine us ie pantheism.
 
Sketo said:
Your denial of your own view is great
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Rather it is my denial of your deluded claim.
Sketo said:
On Provisionism God can not determine anything contrary to THE knowledge God did not determine.
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Again, you are not making much sense.

If God foreknows a thing, his knowledge cannot be wrong

You are denying the omniscience of God.



Sketo said:
On Provisionism God is no more "free" to do other than eternally set "knowledge" than man is.

When is man "free" to do other than what God eternally knew man will do?

When is God "free" to do other than what God eternally knew God would do?

You can't see the problem your own system creates.

...
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Actually, I can see your strange claims about provisionism lead you into a denial of the omniscience and omnipotence of God.
 
fltom said:
Nope its your leap of logic unsupported by anything

Again your confusion is great

read slowly what was posted

Nope
It was God who set the conditions upon which he would save and he did so knowing who would fulfill that criteria so your claim of preprogrammed is rather bizarre.

Hello

You statement is the opposite of what I claimed.
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fltom said:
sorry, you have provided no evidence for that claim, and it is nothing but a gratuitous assumption





Again you have presented no evidence God knew who wouldn’t “fulfill” that criteria before he “set the condition”
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So He knew and then determined the criteria? There you go folks. Provisionism believes foreknowledge is determinative.
 
Reformedguy said:
So He knew and then determined the criteria? There you go folks. Provisionism believes foreknowledge is determinative.
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You remain confused. No one was determined to believe.

Foreknowledge is not determination and you continue to misuse the terms you employ
 
fltom said:
You remain confused. No one was determined to believe.

Foreknowledge is not determination and you continue to misuse the terms you employ
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That is exactly what you and the clown head choice meat teach.

God knew and so determined the conditions based on that knowledge.

FOREKNOWLEDGE IS DETERMINATIVE IN PROVISIONISM
 
Reformedguy said:
That is exactly what you and the clown head choice meat teach.

God knew and so determined the conditions based on that knowledge.

FOREKNOWLEDGE IS DETERMINATIVE IN PROVISIONISM
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Sorry, you provide no evidence for your claims.

Knowing is not determining.

You fail to use words according to their proper meaning.
 
fltom said:
Sorry, you provide no evidence for your claims.

Knowing is not determining.

You fail to use words according to their proper meaning.
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I use his own words. ? He Saud God knows who will believe and on that basis chose the criteria by which they woukd be saved.

Foreknowledge is determinative in Provisionism
 
Reformedguy said:
Irrelevant to your blatant violation of God's aseity.
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For something to violate God's aseity, it would have to be outside of God's omni-attributes. But nothing, including Liberian choice is outside of it. God created and upholds the idea of libertarian free will and foreknows it, so you are wrong.

However, your view has man's choice as irrevocably part of God ie pantheism, where God is incapable of thinking or doing otherwise.
 
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Kampioen said:
For something to violate God's aseity, it would have to be outside of God's omni-attributes. But nothing, including Liberian choice is outside of it. God created and upholds the idea of libertarian free will and foreknows it, so you are wrong.

However, your view has man's choice as irrevocably part of God ie pantheism, where God is incapable of thinking or doing otherwise.
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1) you question begging LFW. Nowhere in scripture is it written you are endowed with LFW. You presume.

2) God created you LFW and upholds it. You statement question begs the validity of LFW. Something you have yet to prove.

3) Define Pantheism
 
Reformedguy said:
I use his own words. ? He Saud God knows who will believe and on that basis chose the criteria by which they woukd be saved.

Foreknowledge is determinative in Provisionism
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Not my words and you appear to be fabricating.

Provide a quote which you believe justifies that claim
 
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