Thief on the cross - forgiven how?

[American Gothic]

Most of Israel preferred the Law that God gave them, and with that some knowledge of Good and Evil,
instead of the Messiah that God gave them, and in Him a more personal relationship with God.

 

[Jewjitzu]

Most of Israel preferred the Law that God gave them, and with that some knowledge of Good and Evil,
instead of the Messiah that God gave them, and in Him a more personal relationship with God.

Psalm 119 shows how to achieve a personal relationship with God, by loving and being obedient to Him.

There is no evil in the law. That's quite evil to think God would give a gift like that.

 

[American Gothic]

There is no evil in the law. That's quite evil to think God would give a gift like that.

The Law should show the Evil is in you.
No one is really doing it Lawfully today anyway, as much as they might like to pretend they are.

The thief must have understood his only Hope wasn't in the Law itself, but in the Person the Law should point one to.

 

[Jewjitzu]

The Law should show the Evil is in you.

Only when there is sin that is unrepentant.

No one is really doing it Lawfully today anyway, as much as they might like to pretend they are.

Well, how would you know?

The thief must have understood his only Hope wasn't in the Law itself, but in the Person the Law should point one to.

The law doesn't point to a messiah being a sacrifice for all.

The law, shema, points to God.

 

[American Gothic]

unrepentant

If under the Law any repentance for sin was necessary, the Law showed there was sin/evil.
God never has to repent for sin.

the law points to God

It does.

 

[American Gothic]

Well, how would you know?

Anyone living under the Law should know they are not capable of living up to God's standard of Righteousness.

 

[Jewjitzu]

If under the Law any repentance for sin was necessary, the Law showed there was sin/evil.

No, the law showed there was potential to sin. Adam and Eve were given the first law without any sin.

God never has to repent for sin.

I never said He did. He can't take on sin either, Deut 32:6, so a vicarious death for mankind is out of the question.

It does.

Yes, not Messiah.

 

[Jewjitzu]

Anyone living under the Law should know they are not capable of living up to God's standard of Righteousness.

That's not what God says of the law Himself. That would be putting a stumbling block before the blind, a sin, and God doesn't do that.

 

[American Gothic]

Adam and Eve were given the first law without any sin.

How did it work out for them? and us? (having that knowledge of Good and Evil instead of the personal relationship with God....)

 

[Jewjitzu]

How did it work out for them? and us?

The point was the law was given to them before sin.

(having that knowledge of Good and Evil instead of the personal relationship with God....)

That was their choice. Everyone makes a choice.

 

[American Gothic]

The point was the law was given to them before sin.

The point is a Law does not prevent sin, or make or keep one Righteous.

 

[Jewjitzu]

The point is a Law does not prevent sin. or make one Righteous.

Actually doing the law makes one righteous. That's why Christians believe that Jesus' righteousness as a result of following the law is credited to them. But, Ezekiel 18 shows this isn't true.

The law serves as a warning against sin, and a blessing for those who follow it.

 

[American Gothic]

Actually doing the law makes one righteous.

It shows one that they are not Righteous. (like God is)

Christians believe that Jesus' righteousness (is) a result of following the law

Uh no. You don't understand Christianity, and you don't seem to understand the Law.

 

[Jewjitzu]

It shows one that they are not Righteous. (like God is)

It shows if they follow the law, they are.

Uh no. You don't understand Christianity.

Really? So tell me what righteousness Jesus has?

 

[American Gothic]

It shows if they follow the law, they are.

Do it perfectly, and you might show you are as perfectly Righteous as God is.
Less than that, it will only show you are not.

 

[Jewjitzu]

Do it perfectly, and you might show you are as perfectly Righteous as God is.

What does Ezekiel 18 say?

21But if the wicked man turns from all the sins he has committed, keeps all My statutes, and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die. 22None of the transgressions he has committed will be held against him. Because of the righteousness he has practiced, he will live.

So, you're wrong.

Less than that, it will only show you are not.

Read above. You're wrong.

 

[American Gothic]

What does Ezekiel 18 say?

21But if the wicked man turns from ALL the sins he has committed, keeps ALL My statutes, and does what is just and right, he will surely live; he will not die. 22None of the transgressions he has committed will be held against him. Because of the righteousness he has practiced, he will live.

it says ALL, so why are you still sinning then? "ALL that God has commanded we will do" Exodus 19
Israel's failures under the Law are recorded in Scripture for all to see and learn from.

When the mighty and perfect God judges He will say "well, this person tried, and that person just didn't try hard enough..?"
"Hey God, I tried, so I'm not going to tremble in your presence." like it says I should in Jeremiah 5
"We don't really stink THAT bad, do we God?"

"But your iniquities have made a separation between you and your God, and your sins have hidden his face from you so that he does not hear."
Isaiah 59:2

 

[Jewjitzu]

it says ALL, so why are you still sinning then? "ALL that God has commanded we will do" Exodus 19
Israel's failures under the Law are recorded in Scripture for all to see and learn from.

Tell me which sins I'm guilty of, and cast the first stone. Then tell me if you still sin given the sacrifice you think Jesus made for you, and why you still sin?

Tell me if the thief kept all of the laws and how he was forgiven?

Then tell me where Jesus says his righteousness covers you. He doesn't.

When the mighty and perfect God judges He will say "well, this person tried, and that person just didn't try hard enough..?"

What does Ezekiel 18 say?

"Hey God, I tried, so I'm not going to tremble in your presence." like it says I should in Jeremiah 5
"We don't really stink THAT bad, do we God?"

Rotfl... where did Jesus get his righteousness?

The righteous fall 7 times...

For a righteous man falleth seven times, and riseth up again, But the wicked stumble under adversity.

 

[American Gothic]

Tell me which sins I'm guilty of, and cast the first stone.

Religious Pride isn't a good look for Jews, who of all peoples on Earth should know they are sinners.
One thief displayed humility, the other didn't.

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/756399/jewish/The-613-Commandments-Mitzvot.htm#:~:text=The%20613%20Commandments%20%28Mitzvot%29%201%20To%20know%20there,with%20His%20Name%E2%80%94%20Deuteronomy%2012%3A4%20More%20items...%20

"You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors"
Trying to use Christian concepts (wrongly) to deflect from the theological weaknesses of today's Judaism isn't too kosher either.
Use your own Law...which is not to be added to, or taken away from. Deut. 12:32

 

[Jewjitzu]

Religious Pride isn't a good look for Jews, who of all peoples on Earth should know they are sinners.
One thief displayed humility, the other didn't.

Religious pride? No. Just an understanding of what Tanakh says.

Humility doesn't get you into heaven.

https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/756399/jewish/The-613-Commandments-Mitzvot.htm#:~:text=The%20613%20Commandments%20%28Mitzvot%29%201%20To%20know%20there,with%20His%20Name%E2%80%94%20Deuteronomy%2012%3A4%20More%20items...%20

Rotfl... tell me which law you accuse me of breaking?

Jesus broke the law by saying one had to be sinless to cast a stone against an adulterer.

"You stiff-necked people! Your hearts and ears are still uncircumcised. You are just like your ancestors"
Trying to use Christian concepts (wrongly) to deflect from the theological weaknesses of today's Judaism isn't too kosher either.
Use your own Law...which is not to be added to, or taken away from. Deut. 12:32

Rotfl... show me where I added to the law.

You still haven't shown what righteousness Jesus has, and based on what.

So, tell us about your sins and why you still do?