Trinitarians have a pronoun problem

A

Andreas

Well-known member
When Trinitarians speak of God in prayer, in teaching and preaching they usually refer to God as "He". Examples would include things like, "God loves you and He has a plan for your life". Or, "I've prayed to God for my healing and I will continue to trust in Him". This, of course, would be a Biblically accurate way to speak or pray to God.

It would be odd and difficult to speak of God in practice while adhering to a strict Trinitarian view of God. For example, who would say "God loves you and They have plan for your life". Or, "I've prayed to God for my healing and I will continue to trust in Them". Yet, theologically, these would be correct Trinitarian ways to speak of and to God.

Trinitarians will rationalize this tension between the singular and plural use of the pronouns, but it is neither consistent nor semantically correct.
 
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Andreas said:
When Trinitarians speak of God in prayer, in teaching and preaching they usually refer to God as "He". Examples would include things like, "God loves you and He has a plan for your life". Or, "I've prayed to God for my healing and I will continue to trust in Him". This, of course, would be a Biblical accurate way to speak or pray to God.

Yet it would be odd for a Trinitarian to say these things while sticking with a literal application of their view of the Trinity... for example, who would say "God loves you and They have plan for your life". Or, "I've prayed to God for my healing and I will continue to trust in Them".
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Right. According to Trinitarian Catholic Catechism 252...

The Church uses (I) the term "substance" (rendered also at times by "essence" or "nature") to designate the divine being in its unity, (II) the term "person" or "hypostasis" to designate the Father, Son and Holy Spirit in the real distinction among them, and (III) the term "relation" to designate the fact that their distinction lies in the relationship of each to the others.

So when Trinitarians refer to God as ONE, they are supposed to use the pronoun "IT".

So if they are praying to the one "substance", they should pray...
"God loves you and IT has a plan for your life."

Or if they are praying to the three "persons", they should pray...
"God loves you and THEY has a plan for your life."
 
Yahchristian said:
Right. According to Trinitarian Catholic Catechism 252...

The Church uses (I) the term "substance" (rendered also at times by "essence" or "nature") to designate the divine being in its unity, (II) the term "person" or "hypostasis" to designate the Father, Son and Holy Spirit in the real distinction among them, and (III) the term "relation" to designate the fact that their distinction lies in the relationship of each to the others.

So when Trinitarians refer to God as ONE, they are supposed to use the pronoun "IT".

So if they are praying to the one "substance", they should pray...
"God loves you and IT has a plan for your life."

Or if they are praying to the three "persons", they should pray...
"God loves you and THEY has a plan for your life."
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Yes, this pronoun problem is such an obvious issue.
 
Yahchristian said:
Right. According to Trinitarian Catholic Catechism 252...

The Church uses (I) the term "substance" (rendered also at times by "essence" or "nature") to designate the divine being in its unity, (II) the term "person" or "hypostasis" to designate the Father, Son and Holy Spirit in the real distinction among them, and (III) the term "relation" to designate the fact that their distinction lies in the relationship of each to the others.

So when Trinitarians refer to God as ONE, they are supposed to use the pronoun "IT".

So if they are praying to the one "substance", they should pray...
"God loves you and IT has a plan for your life."

Or if they are praying to the three "persons", they should pray...
"God loves you and THEY has a plan for your life."
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That is exactly correct!! The only time they can pray to a “he” is if they pray to one of the three persons only!
 
Theo1689 said:
Grammar, language, and pronouns are designed for a human context, and not a divine one. And God is unique, there is nothing to compare Him to. So it seems unrealistic to try to make God conform to human constructs, and deny God when things don't "fit". There is simply no reason to expect it to fit.
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All scripture is inspired (God breathed) by God and profitable for doctrine and that includes the pronouns that God used to refer to Himself. No where in the Bible has God said that we ought to be confused about His personal pronouns because they don't fit. God is not the author of confusion. Human imagination is capable of holding opposing and irrational views and live with this tension but it is neither rational, nor is it of God.
 
Andreas said:
All scripture is inspired (God breathed) by God and profitable for doctrine and that includes the pronouns that God used to refer to Himself. No where in the Bible has God said that we ought to be confused about His personal pronouns because they don't fit. God is not the author of confusion. Human imagination is capable of holding opposing and irrational views and live with this tension but it is neither rational, nor is it of God.
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I've never met a Trinitarian who was "confused about His personal pronouns".

Only Anti-Trinitarians who are TRYING to cause "confusion" because they hate the doctrine and want to attack it.
 
Theo1689 said:
Grammar, language, and pronouns are designed for a human context, and not a divine one. And God is unique, there is nothing to compare Him to. So it seems unrealistic to try to make God conform to human constructs, and deny God when things don't "fit". There is simply no reason to expect it to fit.
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ROFLOL and yet you trins will go to Bible Colleges and learn Greek and Hebrew grammars and swear by them that you can prove unto human beings the truths of the Bible by this kind of knowledge.

But here you are now saying that God is above all of this because "God is unique and there is nothing to compare him to" and only because you have no cogent answer for the problem that Andreas has brought to your attention.

Could God not have used a singular for his Title and then personal plural pronouns to express himself to humans and in order to make it clear that he was more than one person as being one God, if he truly was more than one person as one God?

After all, don't you trins love to argue that God is able to do all things and therefore if he wanted to become a man he could have and therefore did?
 
Theo1689 said:
I've never met a Trinitarian who was "confused about His personal pronouns".

Only Anti-Trinitarians who are TRYING to cause "confusion" because they hate the doctrine and want to attack it.
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Pointing out the contradiction of pronouns with the doctrine wasn't meant to cause confusion but point out the obvious. You stated, "Grammar, language, and pronouns are designed for a human context, and not a divine one". The pronoun, "I", as in Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD, and there is no other; there is no God but Me" seems clear as to pronouns. Are these pronouns God uses of Himself inadequate or insufficient to you? If so, in what way?
 
Andreas said:
Pointing out the contradiction of pronouns with the doctrine wasn't meant to cause confusion but point out the obvious. You stated, "Grammar, language, and pronouns are designed for a human context, and not a divine one". The pronoun, "I", as in Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD, and there is no other; there is no God but Me" seems clear as to pronouns. Are these pronouns God uses of Himself inadequate or insufficient to you? If so, in what way?
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Okay, you continue to mock God, and we'll continue to ignore your nonsense.
 
Theo1689 said:
Grammar, language, and pronouns are designed for a human context, and not a divine one. And God is unique, there is nothing to compare Him to. So it seems unrealistic to try to make God conform to human constructs, and deny God when things don't "fit". There is simply no reason to expect it to fit.
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So are you saying it is just as valid to use ANY pronoun for God including IT, SHE, THEY, etc as it is to use HE?

Since you say “it seems unrealistic to try to make God conform to human constructs”.
 
Andreas said:
Pointing out the contradiction of pronouns with the doctrine wasn't meant to cause confusion but point out the obvious. You stated, "Grammar, language, and pronouns are designed for a human context, and not a divine one". The pronoun, "I", as in Isaiah 45:5 "I am the LORD, and there is no other; there is no God but Me" seems clear as to pronouns. Are these pronouns God uses of Himself inadequate or insufficient to you? If so, in what way?
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Neither Hebrew, Greek, Latin, nor English were designed to describe Tri-personal beings. I'm not sure why you have such great difficulty understanding that.

Your using a mis-use of grammar to try to deny Biblical truth.
You are free to do that, but you will NEVER convince a Bible believing Christian, especially when it includes condescension and insult.
 
Theo1689 said:
Neither Hebrew, Greek, Latin, nor English were designed to describe Tri-personal beings. I'm not sure why you have such great difficulty understanding that.

Your using a mis-use of grammar to try to deny Biblical truth.
You are free to do that, but you will NEVER convince a Bible believing Christian, especially when it includes condescension and insult.
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I think that you mean that he will never convince a bias brainwashed Trinitarian instead and on that note you are correct also.
 
Theo1689 said:
I've never met a Trinitarian who was "confused about His personal pronouns".

Only Anti-Trinitarians who are TRYING to cause "confusion" because they hate the doctrine and want to attack it.
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I'm so glad I don't have to be confined to the anti-trin rules. Sometime I pray to the God the Father, sometimes to God the Son and sometimes to God the Holy Spirit...sometime I need the Holy Spirit to groan for me. Sometime to all 3 of the Trinity Godhead at once.....going bodly into the throne room.

I don't need anti-trin rules to tell me how to address God.
 
Theo1689 said:
I've never met a Trinitarian who was "confused about His personal pronouns".
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Ok TRINITARIANS, what pronoun would you fill in the blank with?

Friend: “You need to pray to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit about that.”

You: “I've prayed to God for my healing and I will continue to trust in ____.”

Them?
 
Yahweh will increase said:
I think that you mean that he will never convince a bias brainwashed trinity instead and on that note you are correct also.
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Yeah, that's fine....
Go ahead and accuse me of being "bias brainwashed".
And I'll go ahead and accuse YOU of "bias brainwashed".

And that sad thing is that you probably think that childish name-calling accomplishes something in a Christ-like fashion.
 
CrowCross said:
I'm so glad I don't have to be confined to the anti-trin rules. Sometime I pray to the God the Father, sometimes to God the Son and sometimes to God the Holy Spirit...sometime I need the Holy Spirit to groan for me. Sometime to all 3 of the Trinity Godhead at once.....going bodly into the throne room.

I don't need anti-trin rules to tell me how to address God.
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Wait a minute, for isn't it really the trintarians who are the ones who want to force the spiritual truths of God in the scriptures into a box of human grammatical rules that always must apply no matter what?
 
Theo1689 said:
Yeah, that's fine....
Go ahead and accuse me of being "bias brainwashed".
And I'll go ahead and accuse YOU of "bias brainwashed".

And that sad thing is that you probably think that childish name-calling accomplishes something in a Christ-like fashion.
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If the shoe fits then you need to acknowledge it and remove it and concerning your last statement, go preach it to your buddy civic who has been calling me gooblygook or some such nonsense.

For what he does is most definitely childish name calling but my revealing the truth that someone is biased and brainwashed is quite necessary if that is what they are and you have proven that about yourself and especially by your ridiculous interpretation of John 17:3.
 
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