What The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints possess which others don't.

[dberrie2020]

I was wondering--what churches, other than The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints--have the living, mortal apostles and prophets--with the manifestations of heavenly beings, and canonized scripture which records those events, IE--

D&C 110
1 The veil was taken from our minds, and the eyes of our understanding were opened.
2 We saw the Lord standing upon the breastwork of the pulpit, before us; and under his feet was a paved work of pure gold, in color like amber.
3 His eyes were as a flame of fire; the hair of his head was white like the pure snow; his countenance shone above the brightness of the sun; and his voice was as the sound of the rushing of great waters, even the voice of Jehovah, saying:
4 I am the first and the last; I am he who liveth, I am he who was slain; I am your advocate with the Father.
5 Behold, your sins are forgiven you; you are clean before me; therefore, lift up your heads and rejoice.
6 Let the hearts of your brethren rejoice, and let the hearts of all my people rejoice, who have, with their might, built this house to my name.
7 For behold, I have accepted this house, and my name shall be here; and I will manifest myself to my people in mercy in this house.
8 Yea, I will appear unto my servants, and speak unto them with mine own voice, if my people will keep my commandments, and do not pollute this holy house.
9 Yea the hearts of thousands and tens of thousands shall greatly rejoice in consequence of the blessings which shall be poured out, and the endowment with which my servants have been endowed in this house.
10 And the fame of this house shall spread to foreign lands; and this is the beginning of the blessing which shall be poured out upon the heads of my people. Even so. Amen.
11 After this vision closed, the heavens were again opened unto us; and Moses appeared before us, and committed unto us the keys of the gathering of Israel from the four parts of the earth, and the leading of the ten tribes from the land of the north.
12 After this, Elias appeared, and committed the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham, saying that in us and our seed all generations after us should be blessed.
13 After this vision had closed, another great and glorious vision burst upon us; for Elijah the prophet, who was taken to heaven without tasting death, stood before us, and said:
14 Behold, the time has fully come, which was spoken of by the mouth of Malachi testifying that he [Elijah] should be sent, before the great and dreadful day of the Lord come
15 To turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the children to the fathers, lest the whole earth be smitten with a curse
16 Therefore, the keys of this dispensation are committed into your hands; and by this ye may know that the great and dreadful day of the Lord is near, even at the doors.

 

[Bonnie]

What the LDS church possesses that true churches do NOT possess are false prophets and false apostles, which lead their people astray from faith in the true Jesus Christ and the true Gospel, to believe in a false prophet, and put their faith in a false god and false savior, which save no one. Their gospel--especially with the temple and all the works that must be done therein if one wants eternal life and godhood in the CK after death--is taught nowhere in the NT, by either Jesus or any of His true apostles. Paul warns us about them:

2 Cor. 11--12 But what I am doing I will continue to do, so that I may cut off opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be [a]regarded just as we are in the matter about which they are boasting. 13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds.

We have been told that our churches are empty because we don't have apostles and prophets and all that supposedly go with them, like new revelations. But that is utterly false. We have JESUS in our churches! We have JESUS' guarantee on that! Because He said in Matthew 18--"Wherever two or three are gathered together in My Name, there will I be in the midst of them."

Well, we gather together in our churches every Sunday to worship God in Christ Jesus our Lord, to pray, praise, and give thanks to God for sending His Son to die for our sins so that by grace through faith in Him we can have eternal life in His Name--"For the wages of sin is death; but the GIFT OF GOD is life eternal in Christ Jesus our Lord." Jesus is there in our midst. HE fills our churches. We have no need for lying false prophets and false apostles. We have Jesus, the true One of the Bible, not the fake one of your church.

 

[Theo1689]

What the LDS church possesses that true churches do NOT possess are false prophets and false apostles, which lead their people astray from faith in the true Jesus Christ and the true Gospel, to believe in a false prophet, and put their faith in a false god and false savior, which save no one.

Isn't it fascinating?
Decades ago, the Mormon church actually asked the right question, "Which is the one true church that teaches the doctrines found in the Bible?" Unfortunately, the came up with the wrong answers, in the "17 Points of the One True Church". They thought by giving citations the pamphlet would be convincing, but with the invention of electronic searchable Bibles, and published cross-references and other resources, the "17 Points" went the way of the dodo.

So now they have more vague "requirements" about "living prophets and apostles", which requirements are NOWHERE to be found in the Bible.

Of course, their main "proof-text" is the following:

Eph. 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;​

The problem is that this is speaking of the "foundation" of the church, which is built once. "Built" is in past tense, so it not a "continuing" action. When you're buliding a building, you do not keep replacing the "foundation" every time you add a new storey to the building.

Further, "apostles", "prophets", and "Jesus Christ" are all mentioned together, and at least Mormons are bright enough to realize that Jesus Christ isn't to be "replaced".

This is one of those instances where Mormonism's failure comes through "cherry-picking" verses, rather than looking at what the WHOLE of Scripture teachesa about a topic. Heb. 1:1-2 teaches that the time of "prophets" has ended, and that Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of prophecy.

Further, in the BIBLE, there were various times when Israel had no prophet, and times when multiple prophets existed contemporaneously. They weren't "chosen" out of a pool of octagenerians as Mormonism does today, they were hand-chosen by God, and many were not what sinners would expect a prophet to be (eg. young David, rather than any of his brothers)>

As for apostles, other than Judas Isacariot being replaced, there is no record either in the Bible or in the early church of the church "replacing" apostles when they died, as a general practice. So that begs teh question of why Judas was replaced. And in fact, he was replaced because he disqualified himself as an apostle, not because there is going to be some "ongoing line of apostles". Further, in Revelation (singular, are you paying attention, Mormons?) we read that the walls of New Jerusalem were built on twelve foundations, and each foundation had upon it the name of one of the "twelve apostles of the Lamb", indicating that there were only to be Twelve, not some large "number" of them.

 

[Bonnie]

Very good post, Theo. Thanks. It is as I have stated--the house we live in now was built in 1994. The foundation for it is strong and solid. So, when the owners sold it to our daughter and her husband, they didn't tear down the house, dig up the original foundation, and then build a new house on top of it. How stupid would THAT be? (we live in an apartment we had build in their large basement). They just moved into the house.

That is what the Mormons appear to believe that verse means about the church being built on the prophets and apostles, meaning THEIR prophets and THEIR apostles. What arrogance the LDS church has, to think and believe this!

 

[Markk]

I was wondering--what churches, other than The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints--have the living, mortal apostles and prophets--with the manifestations of heavenly beings, and canonized scripture which records those events, IE--

D&C 110
1 The veil was taken from our minds, and the eyes of our understanding were opened.
2 We saw the Lord standing upon the breastwork of the pulpit, before us; and under his feet was a paved work of pure gold, in color like amber.
3 His eyes were as a flame of fire; the hair of his head was white like the pure snow; his countenance shone above the brightness of the sun; and his voice was as the sound of the rushing of great waters, even the voice of Jehovah, saying:
4 I am the first and the last; I am he who liveth, I am he who was slain; I am your advocate with the Father.
5 Behold, your sins are forgiven you; you are clean before me; therefore, lift up your heads and rejoice.
6 Let the hearts of your brethren rejoice, and let the hearts of all my people rejoice, who have, with their might, built this house to my name.
7 For behold, I have accepted this house, and my name shall be here; and I will manifest myself to my people in mercy in this house.
8 Yea, I will appear unto my servants, and speak unto them with mine own voice, if my people will keep my commandments, and do not pollute this holy house.
9 Yea the hearts of thousands and tens of thousands shall greatly rejoice in consequence of the blessings which shall be poured out, and the endowment with which my servants have been endowed in this house.
10 And the fame of this house shall spread to foreign lands; and this is the beginning of the blessing which shall be poured out upon the heads of my people. Even so. Amen.
11 After this vision closed, the heavens were again opened unto us; and Moses appeared before us, and committed unto us the keys of the gathering of Israel from the four parts of the earth, and the leading of the ten tribes from the land of the north.
12 After this, Elias appeared, and committed the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham, saying that in us and our seed all generations after us should be blessed.
13 After this vision had closed, another great and glorious vision burst upon us; for Elijah the prophet, who was taken to heaven without tasting death, stood before us, and said:
14 Behold, the time has fully come, which was spoken of by the mouth of Malachi testifying that he [Elijah] should be sent, before the great and dreadful day of the Lord come
15 To turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the children to the fathers, lest the whole earth be smitten with a curse
16 Therefore, the keys of this dispensation are committed into your hands; and by this ye may know that the great and dreadful day of the Lord is near, even at the doors.

That is from a dead prophet, in regard to your OP what has the living prophets and apostles offered? Did you think this talking point through? When was the last heavenly magnification that these living mortal prophets and apostles witness too?

In the accounts of many at the Kirtland temple the folks were speaking in tongues....do you do that in your temples today?

Off the top of my head the current prophet has made a request that Mormons should not be called Mormons or LDS? What else what else to you have the Christians have. I have Jesus in my heart, do I need more?

Gift of Tongues

Gift of Tongues

www.churchofjesuschrist.org

 

[dberrie2020]

What the LDS church possesses that true churches do NOT possess are false prophets and false apostles,

That seems to be the same accusation of the traditional Jews against the first century apostles.

It wasn't the fact the traditional Jews could make that accusation, which made them outside of God's true church--it was the fact they didn't possess the first living, mortal apostle.

That's your position--you don't have the first living, mortal apostles or prophet--which were part of the first century church until the END of the NT record. Until the end, Bonnie.

Your church does not have any of the living, mortal apostles. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints do--and so did the NT church.

That you can point your finger and accuse does nothing to differentiate you from the traditional Jews of the NT. You still don't have the living, mortal apostles.

Nor do you have the other things which differentiated you from the NT church--such as the heavenly manifestations, and the canonized scripture which flowed from those experiences. You have zilch, as to those things.

Their gospel--especially with the temple and all the works that must be done therein....

Which is another thing your church does not possess:

Revelation 7:13-15---King James Version
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

What church has the servants serving God in His temple--dressed in white robes?

Are those who serve God in the temple night and day--"all the works"?

Well, we gather together in our churches every Sunday to worship God in Christ Jesus our Lord, ....

Your church isn't even named after the Lord Jesus Christ, but rather--after an ordinary man--who invented it.

 

[dberrie2020]

That is from a dead prophet, in regard to your OP what has the living prophets and apostles offered?

A dead prophet from the restoration of the gospel. Heavenly revelation, and canonized scripture from the restored gospel--is replete in the history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints--and the NT church. They both have the living, mortal apostles and prophets.

The apostles have always been engaged in building up His kingdom:

Acts 16:4-5---King James Version
4 And as they went through the cities, they delivered them the decrees for to keep, that were ordained of the apostles and elders which were at Jerusalem.
5 And so were the churches established in the faith, and increased in number daily.

Where are your living, mortal apostles and prophets? Your heavenly revelations attached to your church? Your canonized scripture from your church?

Where is the heavenly authority in your church? By what account?

We can trace that in the NT church--and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Even the Catholics have a claim on that. You have nothing.

 

[Markk]

A dead prophet from the restoration of the gospel. Heavenly revelation, and canonized scripture from the restored gospel--is replete in the history of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints--and the NT church. They both have the living, mortal apostles and prophets.

The apostles have always been engaged in building up His kingdom:

Acts 16:4-5---King James Version
4 And as they went through the cities, they delivered them the decrees for to keep, that were ordained of the apostles and elders which were at Jerusalem.
5 And so were the churches established in the faith, and increased in number daily.

Where are your living, mortal apostles and prophets? Your heavenly revelations attached to your church? Your canonized scripture from your church?

Where is the heavenly authority in your church? By what account?

We can trace that in the NT church--and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Even the Catholics have a claim on that. You have nothing.

LOL....how many times has that been answered to you. You don't need to like the answer but you can at least move forward acknowledging you understand to different positions.

I asked you a fair question based on your question....remember what you were "wondering " about.

What do the 15 living Prophets, Seers, and Revelators do. And you quoted D&C 110, which in context to the history of the folks that were there many started speaking in strange tongues and some, particularly Parley Pratt interpreted these strange tongues. Is that what happens in todays temples, or has the church strayed away from D&C 110?

In the Kirtland Temple one of Joseph Smith's teenage wives, Sara Ann Whitney began singing in strange tongues. Lorenzo Snow said that blind people received sight, lame people walked...etc. In the Temple there were no endowments and baptisms, it was a place of worship and teaching.

The saints were practicing the United Order then, or at least trying to, yet todays church invests speculating in the stock markets. In Kirtland there was the school of the prophets that met in the temple to instruct men....and even the nature of God as taught by Smith was different that it is today, it was a decade before the LDS God was taught to once be a man and has a body. Joseph until 1844 taught God was spirit.

Point being you are somehow very ignorantly trying to compare the early "Church of the Latter Day Saints" in Kirtland, with todays "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." This is just apples and oranges DB, once again you assert a talking point that you are both ill equipped and emotionally not prepared to discuss to it's logical end.

 

[Markk]

Your church isn't even named after the Lord Jesus Christ, but rather--after an ordinary man--who invented it.

Says a Brighamite....

List of denominations in the Latter Day Saint movement - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[organgrinder]

That seems to be the same accusation of the traditional Jews against the first century apostles.

It wasn't the fact the traditional Jews could make that accusation, which made them outside of God's true church--it was the fact they didn't possess the first living, mortal apostle.

That's your position--you don't have the first living, mortal apostles or prophet--which were part of the first century church until the END of the NT record. Until the end, Bonnie.

Your church does not have any of the living, mortal apostles. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints do--and so did the NT church.

That you can point your finger and accuse does nothing to differentiate you from the traditional Jews of the NT. You still don't have the living, mortal apostles.

Nor do you have the other things which differentiated you from the NT church--such as the heavenly manifestations, and the canonized scripture which flowed from those experiences. You have zilch, as to those things.



Which is another thing your church does not possess:

Revelation 7:13-15---King James Version
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

What church has the servants serving God in His temple--dressed in white robes?

Are those who serve God in the temple night and day--"all the works"?



Your church isn't even named after the Lord Jesus Christ, but rather--after an ordinary man--who invented it.

Dberrie, you ignored Theo's entire post #3 addressing apostles and prophets. Why was that?

 

[dberrie2020]

LOL....how many times has that been answered to you. You don't need to like the answer but you can at least move forward acknowledging you understand to different positions.

Could you point me to the answer which explains why the churches are absent of the living, mortal apostles and prophets, the heavenly revelation and manifestations--and continuing scripture which canonizes those experiences?

Those things are absent in the critic's churches--but present in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the NT church of the first century.

Where does the churches claim they derive their authority--when those things are absent?

Point being you are somehow very ignorantly trying to compare the early "Church of the Latter Day Saints" in Kirtland, with todays "Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints." This is just apples and oranges DB, once again you assert a talking point that you are both ill equipped and emotionally not prepared to discuss to it's logical end.

The logical end is--there is not one critic here which can forward this board one iota of heavenly revelation or manifestation of a heavenly being, or continuing scripture. Not one.

Mark--that is the usual things which have separated out the Lord's church from all others. Your church is empty there. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is replete with those kinds of experiences and events. And so is the Biblical record in the NT church.

I say that because the critics here point their finger and accuse the LDS of false prophets and apostles, scripture, and heavenly manifestations--when they don't even have any of those things constituting their church's existence.

 

[dberrie2020]

So now they have more vague "requirements" about "living prophets and apostles", which requirements are NOWHERE to be found in the Bible.

Of course, their main "proof-text" is the following:

Eph. 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;​

The problem is that this is speaking of the "foundation" of the church, which is built once. "Built" is in past tense, so it not a "continuing" action. When you're buliding a building, you do not keep replacing the "foundation" every time you add a new storey to the building.

It was a living, mortal apostle which wrote Ephesians--and this isn't something which is just past tense:

Ephesians 4:11-14--King James Version
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;

Further, "apostles", "prophets", and "Jesus Christ" are all mentioned together, and at least Mormons are bright enough to realize that Jesus Christ isn't to be "replaced".

The living, mortal apostles didn't replace Jesus Christ--and those living, mortal apostles were there until the end of the Biblical record.

This is one of those instances where Mormonism's failure comes through "cherry-picking" verses, rather than looking at what the WHOLE of Scripture teachesa about a topic. Heb. 1:1-2 teaches that the time of "prophets" has ended, and that Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of prophecy.

It does no such thing--as the prophets were present in the NT church following the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ.

Acts 15:32---King James Version (KJV)
32 And Judas and Silas, being prophets also themselves, exhorted the brethren with many words, and confirmed them.

Acts 21:10-11---King James Version (KJV)
10 And as we tarried there many days, there came down from Judaea a certain prophet, named Agabus.
11 And when he was come unto us, he took Paul's girdle, and bound his own hands and feet, and said, Thus saith the Holy Ghost, So shall the Jews at Jerusalem bind the man that owneth this girdle, and shall deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.

Acts 11:27---King James Version (KJV)
27 And in these days came prophets from Jerusalem unto Antioch.

Acts 13:1----King James Version (KJV)
1 Now there were in the church that was at Antioch certain prophets and teachers; as Barnabas, and Simeon that was called Niger, and Lucius of Cyrene, and Manaen, which had been brought up with Herod the tetrarch, and Saul.

Further, in the BIBLE, there were various times when Israel had no prophet, and times when multiple prophets existed contemporaneously.

Which shows just so prophets were absent at one point--does not mean their presence at another point constitutes a rebuilding of the foundation. Rather--it constitutes a continuation of the foundation.

As for apostles, other than Judas Isacariot being replaced, there is no record either in the Bible or in the early church of the church "replacing" apostles when they died, as a general practice.

There was a continuation of apostles following Matthias:

Acts 14:14---King James Version
14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,

So that begs teh question of why Judas was replaced. And in fact, he was replaced because he disqualified himself as an apostle, not because there is going to be some "ongoing line of apostles".

Acts 14:14 shows there was an ongoing line of apostles.

Theo--could you give us the names of your living, mortal apostles which acts in this capacity--in your church?

Acts 16:4-5---King James Version
4 And as they went through the cities, they delivered them the decrees for to keep, that were ordained of the apostles and elders which were at Jerusalem.
5 And so were the churches established in the faith, and increased in number daily.

Also--what heavenly manifestations has your church received constituting it's inception-- and is recorded in scripture?

 

[Bonnie]

That seems to be the same accusation of the traditional Jews against the first century apostles.

It wasn't the fact the traditional Jews could make that accusation, which made them outside of God's true church--it was the fact they didn't possess the first living, mortal apostle.

Except the NT is the actual word of God, written by the apostles who knew Jesus personally, or were close associates of those who did. Unlike the BoM, D and C, and Pearl books.

That's your position--you don't have the first living, mortal apostles or prophet--which were part of the first century church until the END of the NT record. Until the end, Bonnie.

We have what the TRUE prophets and TRUE apostles wrote for us, under inspiration of the HS and recorded for us in the pages of the Bible. The church's foundation is made up of these men, with Jesus as the cornerstone. Jesus would never, ever build His church upon the lying false prophets and false apostles of YOUR "church."

Your church does not have any of the living, mortal apostles. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints do--and so did the NT church.

YOUR church has FALSE prophets and FALSE apostles, which is nothing to boast about. Paul says if we boast about anything, boast in the Lord Jesus Christ. Instead, you boast about your church. That is rather telling....

the NT church had TRUE apostles that taught the TRUE Gospel of Jesus Christ. YOURS teach a false god, a false savior, and a false gospel, which centers chiefly around your temples and the ordinances and covenants done and made therein. Where are those taught in the first century church by the true Apostles of the true Jesus Christ?

That you can point your finger and accuse does nothing to differentiate you from the traditional Jews of the NT. You still don't have the living, mortal apostles.

We have plenty to differentiate us from the traditional Jews of the NT. But you are right--we don't have the living, FALSE APOSTLES that your church has. Thank the Lord Jesus Christ for that!

Paul knew all about false apostles:

2 Cor. 11--12 And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about. 13 For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light. 15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.

Fits the description of your church to a "t." It boasts about having "living" prophets and "living" apostles--but they are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ, however unwittingly.

Nor do you have the other things which differentiated you from the NT church--such as the heavenly manifestations, and the canonized scripture which flowed from those experiences. You have zilch, as to those things.

I have addressed this before, which you probably ignored. We don't need heavenly manifestations to be a true church. The ones your church claims only added to the errors your church teaches, and therefore, were not from God.

As for canonized Scripture, we have the TRUE scriptures with the true Gospel message in them, "delivered once for all to the saints." ONCE. And nowhere does the NT Gospel teach 3 levels of heaven and who goes where after death; exaltation to godhood, that men can learn to become gods; heavenly mother; Adam was first Michael the archangel; the necessity of building temples all over the world; the endowment ceremony with its butchered and perverted versions of the Creation and Fall into sin stories from Genesis; the WoW; wearing temple undergarments for the rest of one's life; fulfilling one's "callings", and keeping a temple recommend for the rest of one's life; being married and having that marriage "sealed" in your temples--all laws your church teaches must be kept in order to be "exalted" to the highest level in the CK and become creators of worlds with your wives.....

Where is any of this taught in the NT by either Jesus OR His true apostles? Instead, we read "For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whosoever BELIEVES IN HIM will have everlasting life." Eternal life in Mormonism is exaltation, correct? Well, funny how Jesus didn't mention any of these things when He said that....and neither did Paul or Peter or anyone else who wrote the NT.

Which is another thing your church does not possess:

Revelation 7:13-15---King James Version
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

I also dealt with this. This is a heavenly vision that John had. And notice that it is ONE TEMPLE, not dozens all over the world. And Revelation explains what the white robes represent:

Rev. 19:8--it was granted her to clothe herself with fine linen, bright and pure”— for the fine linen is the righteous deeds of the saints.

White robes in Revelation always denote purity and the righteous acts of the saints. Just wearing them in a church on earth is no proof that it is a true church. As I stated before, Satanists can wear white robes in their "churches"--does that make them a true church? The Catholic pope wears white robes sometimes--does that mean the RCC is a true church?

The color of clothing worn during worship isn't what makes a church a true church--what it teaches and preaches DOES. Yours is not a true church, because it teaches a false god, a false savior, and a very false gospel.

What church has the servants serving God in His temple--dressed in white robes?

See above.

Are those who serve God in the temple night and day--"all the works"?

Huh? People are not works. But the righteous works done by the saints are done IN faith in Jesus Christ, BECAUSE they are saved.

Your church isn't even named after the Lord Jesus Christ, but rather--after an ordinary man--who invented it.

He invented no such thing. And he didn't name it. But that is off topic for this board.

But "what's in a name? A rose by any other name would smell as sweet." To paraphrase that, "What's in a name? A church named after Jesus Christ or that has 'Christian" in it is no guarantee it is a true Christian church."

For instance, Christian Science is neither Christian or science. There is a "Christian Theosophy" church--we once got a pamphlet from it in the mail, more than 20 years ago--is it truly "Christian"? Are Christadelphians? Unity School of Christianity?

What makes a church truly Christian is what it teaches and professes. And yours fails the Christian test.

 

[CrowCross]

From what I understand to apostles, prophets and whatever else you want to call them belonging to the LDS tell us you you need to be baptized the correct mormon way by a bona-fide mormon if you have any hope of being exalted.

The LDS posses a lot that the church I attend to doesn't. Legalism being one of them.

BTW, Moroni dropped his trumpet a little while ago....Kinda reminds me of 1 Sam 5:4 But when they got up early the next morning, there was Dagon, fallen on his face....

 

[Markk]

Could you point me to the answer which explains why the churches are absent of the living, mortal apostles and prophets, the heavenly revelation and manifestations--and continuing scripture which canonizes those experiences?

Can you point to me the LDS church has any of those? And if you think Christ did not do enough on the cross for mankind, I get it, that is a fruit or Mormonism.

Moving forward...

Your first Prophet, Seer, and Revelator was a man, who was deeply into folk magic, digging for money and finding lost things vis a stone in his hat. A man that took on many wives while hiding it from his first wife. Was in and out of jail many times....and this is key, claimed to be the true prophet of about 40 different sects, one of the most recent is the Remnant Movement who has a prophet that has claimed to see Christ, has a set of Canonized scripture, and are planning to build a temple. They claim the Book Of Mormon to be true, and Joseph Smith as their founding prophet.

For me this is a very good answer and place to start with you faux "wondering." My guess is you are listening to folks like David Alexander and his non-sense....but either was, tell me what all these men and women that have claimed exalt what you are claiming what you insist is a proof text to proof, have in common?

Then we can go through all you mortal apostles and see what the have offered? Since the foundation of Mormonism, there have been around 500 or so? We can go through each one by name and see what they have done, that a person needs, the Jesus did not do on the cross.

Is Denver Snuffer and his church a true and living church as the Brighamites are? Is Warren Jeffs a true and living prophet....why not if that is your opinion?

So to follow this to its logical conclusion, why is the Brighamite sect of Mormonism the one true church?

 

[dberrie2020]

Can you point to me the LDS church has any of those?

That's already been posted:

D&C 110
1 The veil was taken from our minds, and the eyes of our understanding were opened.
2 We saw the Lord standing upon the breastwork of the pulpit, before us; and under his feet was a paved work of pure gold, in color like amber.
3 His eyes were as a flame of fire; the hair of his head was white like the pure snow; his countenance shone above the brightness of the sun; and his voice was as the sound of the rushing of great waters, even the voice of Jehovah, saying:
4 I am the first and the last; I am he who liveth, I am he who was slain; I am your advocate with the Father.
5 Behold, your sins are forgiven you; you are clean before me; therefore, lift up your heads and rejoice.
6 Let the hearts of your brethren rejoice, and let the hearts of all my people rejoice, who have, with their might, built this house to my name.
7 For behold, I have accepted this house, and my name shall be here; and I will manifest myself to my people in mercy in this house.
8 Yea, I will appear unto my servants, and speak unto them with mine own voice, if my people will keep my commandments, and do not pollute this holy house.
9 Yea the hearts of thousands and tens of thousands shall greatly rejoice in consequence of the blessings which shall be poured out, and the endowment with which my servants have been endowed in this house.
10 And the fame of this house shall spread to foreign lands; and this is the beginning of the blessing which shall be poured out upon the heads of my people. Even so. Amen.
11 After this vision closed, the heavens were again opened unto us; and Moses appeared before us, and committed unto us the keys of the gathering of Israel from the four parts of the earth, and the leading of the ten tribes from the land of the north.
12 After this, Elias appeared, and committed the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham, saying that in us and our seed all generations after us should be blessed.
13 After this vision had closed, another great and glorious vision burst upon us; for Elijah the prophet, who was taken to heaven without tasting death, stood before us, and said:
14 Behold, the time has fully come, which was spoken of by the mouth of Malachi testifying that he [Elijah] should be sent, before the great and dreadful day of the Lord come
15 To turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the children to the fathers, lest the whole earth be smitten with a curse
16 Therefore, the keys of this dispensation are committed into your hands; and by this ye may know that the great and dreadful day of the Lord is near, even at the doors.

Markk--could you post those kinds of heavenly experiences your church has had?

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the NT church can.

 

[dberrie2020]

Except the NT is the actual word of God, written by the apostles who knew Jesus personally, or were close associates of those who did. Unlike the BoM, D and C, and Pearl books.

That's no different than the accusation traditional Jews make against the NT scripture--to this very day.

First, Bonnie--to make a claim to heavenly visitations--you have to show when and where those experiences have happened. That's essential to actually having those experiences.

You, and the critics here--- can't. You haven't any. Your churches are empty of those heavenly experiences, which the Lord's church never was.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the Biblical text are replete with those heavenly experiences, with a canonized scripture as a testimony.

That you, or anyone else--can point your finger and accuse--is no different than what the traditional Jews of the NT were doing with the living, mortal apostles of the Biblical NT history.

We have what the TRUE prophets and TRUE apostles wrote for us, under inspiration of the HS and recorded for us in the pages of the Bible.

----With the additional canonized record which came out of the heavenly experiences they enjoyed.

You haven't anything to share with us--according to your church's existence. Your church is even named after a man--which is exactly what it is--a man-made church.

The Lord's church could, and can--show the heavenly experiences. They have the canonized scripture as a testimony against those who accuse it.

The church's foundation is made up of these men, with Jesus as the cornerstone. Jesus would never, ever build His church upon the lying false prophets and false apostles of YOUR "church."

Again--that's no different than the very accusation the traditional Jews were making against the NT apostles. That does nothing to account for their existence.

IOW--the very critics who point their fingers and accuse the church with the living, mortal apostles and prophets, with the canonized record to witness their heavenly experiences--are the very critics without any of those traits.

We have plenty to differentiate us from the traditional Jews of the NT.

Correct--you aren't Jews.

I also dealt with this. This is a heavenly vision that John had. And notice that it is ONE TEMPLE, not dozens all over the world.

If there are any whatsoever--then it exceeds what your church has.

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints has the temple---with the servants with white robes--serving God in His temple.

Revelation 7:13-15---King James Version
13 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they?
14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
15 Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them.

 

[Bonnie]

How many times are you going to repeat the same old, same old? I have already dealt with everything you wrote on here. Repeating yourself won't change that.

Your church boasts of living prophets and apostles, but they are FALSE prophets and FALSE apostles. How do we know that? Because they teach contrary to what the Bible teaches. They teach a false god, a false savior, and a false Gospel, that is NO Gospel at all, as Paul said. Such people are "anathema." They lead their people away from the true Jesus Christ of the Bible and the true Gospel, to a false savior and all of the trappings that surround the very false gospel your church teaches--especially those things that include your temples and the works and ordinances done therein and the covenants made therein. All so members can be "exalted" to "godhood" in the CK after death.

Where are these things taught by Jesus or His true apostles, in the Bible?

As for the heavenly in my church, we have that each and every worship service where we gather together to pray, praise, and give thanks to God our Father in Christ Jesus our Lord. Remember Jesus said that whenever two or three gather together in His Name, He is there in our midst. He therefore is at each and every worship service and Bible study we have. He fills our church! HE is all the "heavenly" we desire or need! We have no need for the lying, phony prophets and apostles of your church .

We hear the Good News preached each and every church service--the good news of eternal life by grace through faith in Christ Jesus our Lord, that those who believe in Him will not perish but have eternal life. All Mormons hear at their church is a different Jesus and a different gospel--BAD news, indeed, since there is no eternal life in believing in its lies.

 

[Markk]

That's already been posted:

D&C 110
1 The veil was taken from our minds, and the eyes of our understanding were opened.
2 We saw the Lord standing upon the breastwork of the pulpit, before us; and under his feet was a paved work of pure gold, in color like amber.
3 His eyes were as a flame of fire; the hair of his head was white like the pure snow; his countenance shone above the brightness of the sun; and his voice was as the sound of the rushing of great waters, even the voice of Jehovah, saying:
4 I am the first and the last; I am he who liveth, I am he who was slain; I am your advocate with the Father.
5 Behold, your sins are forgiven you; you are clean before me; therefore, lift up your heads and rejoice.
6 Let the hearts of your brethren rejoice, and let the hearts of all my people rejoice, who have, with their might, built this house to my name.
7 For behold, I have accepted this house, and my name shall be here; and I will manifest myself to my people in mercy in this house.
8 Yea, I will appear unto my servants, and speak unto them with mine own voice, if my people will keep my commandments, and do not pollute this holy house.
9 Yea the hearts of thousands and tens of thousands shall greatly rejoice in consequence of the blessings which shall be poured out, and the endowment with which my servants have been endowed in this house.
10 And the fame of this house shall spread to foreign lands; and this is the beginning of the blessing which shall be poured out upon the heads of my people. Even so. Amen.
11 After this vision closed, the heavens were again opened unto us; and Moses appeared before us, and committed unto us the keys of the gathering of Israel from the four parts of the earth, and the leading of the ten tribes from the land of the north.
12 After this, Elias appeared, and committed the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham, saying that in us and our seed all generations after us should be blessed.
13 After this vision had closed, another great and glorious vision burst upon us; for Elijah the prophet, who was taken to heaven without tasting death, stood before us, and said:
14 Behold, the time has fully come, which was spoken of by the mouth of Malachi testifying that he [Elijah] should be sent, before the great and dreadful day of the Lord come
15 To turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the children to the fathers, lest the whole earth be smitten with a curse
16 Therefore, the keys of this dispensation are committed into your hands; and by this ye may know that the great and dreadful day of the Lord is near, even at the doors.

Markk--could you post those kinds of heavenly experiences your church has had?

The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and the NT church can.

DB, did you read a thing I wrote?

Where did you answer my questions?

Are you one of these Mormons that believe Jesus talks with your prophets and apostles in your temples?

You believe that TCOJCOLdS, The community of Christ, The Church of Jesus Christ, The Church of Christ with the Elijah Message, Apostolic United Brethren, Church of Christ, Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, Latter Day Church of Christ, and many other churches that make the same claim as you?

You obviously claim men like Warren Jeffs, Denver Snuffer, Stacci D. Cramm, and other living prophets of these Latter -day saint movements are all true and living prophets.

No I can't post the kind of experience TCOJCOLdS and these others churches claim, or like the TV evangelists, or new up and comers followers of Joseph Smith like Denver Snuffer that you obviously support.

What do you think about David Alexander, you seem to be parroting his philosophies?

 

[dberrie2020]

mark asked:--"DB, did you read a thing I wrote? Where did you answer my questions?"

dberrie said--Here:

D&C 110
1 The veil was taken from our minds, and the eyes of our understanding were opened.
2 We saw the Lord standing upon the breastwork of the pulpit, before us; and under his feet was a paved work of pure gold, in color like amber.
3 His eyes were as a flame of fire; the hair of his head was white like the pure snow; his countenance shone above the brightness of the sun; and his voice was as the sound of the rushing of great waters, even the voice of Jehovah, saying:
4 I am the first and the last; I am he who liveth, I am he who was slain; I am your advocate with the Father.
5 Behold, your sins are forgiven you; you are clean before me; therefore, lift up your heads and rejoice.
6 Let the hearts of your brethren rejoice, and let the hearts of all my people rejoice, who have, with their might, built this house to my name.
7 For behold, I have accepted this house, and my name shall be here; and I will manifest myself to my people in mercy in this house.
8 Yea, I will appear unto my servants, and speak unto them with mine own voice, if my people will keep my commandments, and do not pollute this holy house.
9 Yea the hearts of thousands and tens of thousands shall greatly rejoice in consequence of the blessings which shall be poured out, and the endowment with which my servants have been endowed in this house.
10 And the fame of this house shall spread to foreign lands; and this is the beginning of the blessing which shall be poured out upon the heads of my people. Even so. Amen.
11 After this vision closed, the heavens were again opened unto us; and Moses appeared before us, and committed unto us the keys of the gathering of Israel from the four parts of the earth, and the leading of the ten tribes from the land of the north.
12 After this, Elias appeared, and committed the dispensation of the gospel of Abraham, saying that in us and our seed all generations after us should be blessed.
13 After this vision had closed, another great and glorious vision burst upon us; for Elijah the prophet, who was taken to heaven without tasting death, stood before us, and said:
14 Behold, the time has fully come, which was spoken of by the mouth of Malachitestifying that he [Elijah] should be sent, before the great and dreadful day of the Lord come
15 To turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the children to the fathers, lest the whole earth be smitten with a curse
16 Therefore, the keys of this dispensation are committed into your hands; and by this ye may know that the great and dreadful day of the Lord is near, even at the doors.

Are you one of these Mormons that believe Jesus talks with your prophets and apostles in your temples?

I believe that's possible--the canonized scriptures testify that has occurred before, on a number of occasions.

You believe that TCOJCOLdS, The community of Christ, The Church of Jesus Christ, The Church of Christ with the Elijah Message, Apostolic United Brethren, Church of Christ, Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, Latter Day Church of Christ, and many other churches that make the same claim as you?

But you can't. Your church has no such evidence.

You obviously claim men like.......Denver Snuffer, Stacci D. Cramm, and other living prophets of these Latter -day saint movements are all true and living prophets.

No I can't post the kind of experience TCOJCOLdS and these others churches claim, or like the TV evangelists, or new up and comers followers of Joseph Smith like Denver Snuffer that you obviously support.

What do you think about David Alexander, you seem to be parroting his philosophies?

Never heard of any of those people.

But you are right--you can't show us the first living, mortal apostle, or any heavenly revelation or heavenly beings, or canonized scripture which testifies to those experiences. It's absent in your church--but very integral to The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and the Biblical NT church.