Whose Witness will you receive?

Howie said:
Correct, the HS abides WITH the OT saints, and He indwells the NT saints ... v17
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so you agree the Holy spirit did not indwell the old testament saints and john 14:16,17 says nothing about old testament saints?
 
Howie said:
I accept your white flag. ?

Here's another one for you.

Dt 30:6 ... “Moreover, the Lord your God will circumcise your heart and the hearts of your descendants, to love the Lord your God with all your heart and all your soul, so that you may live.

@Theophilus
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LOL You blow your toes off and call it a victory?? Ha!
 
Howie said:
Jn 14:16-17. He abided WITH them, them being the old testament elect.
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Of which salvation the prophets have enquired and searched diligently, who prophesied of the grace that should come unto you:

Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
1 Peter 1:10‭-‬11 KJV
 
fltom said:
The holy spirit is not given to make believers he is given to believers to make holy and give life
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The Holy Spirit testifies of Christ. If you have not been taught of God you are not a Christian.

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
John 15:26 KJV

It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
John 6:45 KJV

Also, the Holy Spirit always indwells an unbeliever first before teaching them of Christ.
 
fltom said:
scripture

Acts 2:38 (KJV 1900) — 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Galatians 3:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:5 (KJV 1900) — 5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:14 (KJV 1900) — 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Ephesians 3:17 (KJV 1900) — 17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

John 14:17 (KJV 1900) — 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.


does not support you
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That's fine, nothing wrong with arguing scripture.

My point was you're denying the existence of even prevenient grace, claiming belief requires no grace at all.

That's a rejection of both Arminianism and Calvinism, it's pelagian. So why deny it?
 
CookedGoose said:
That's fine, nothing wrong with arguing scripture.

My point was you're denying the existence of even prevenient grace, claiming belief requires no grace at all.

That's a rejection of both Arminianism and Calvinism, it's pelagian. So why deny it?
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Nope it's provisionism

And Arminian prevenient grace is not the only form of grace

The word itself and conviction of the Spirit are both grace

that is not pelagianism
 
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eternomade said:
The Holy Spirit testifies of Christ. If you have not been taught of God you are not a Christian.

But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:
John 15:26 KJV

It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.
John 6:45 KJV

Also, the Holy Spirit always indwells an unbeliever first before teaching them of Christ.
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Sorry no


you are contradicting scripture

John 14:17 (KJV 1900) — 17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

John 7:38–39 (KJV 1900) — 38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water. 39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)


Acts 2:38–39 (KJV 1900) — 38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. 39 For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.

Galatians 3:2 (KJV 1900) — 2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:5 (KJV 1900) — 5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?

Galatians 3:14 (KJV 1900) — 14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.

Ephesians 3:17 (KJV 1900) — 17 That Christ may dwell in your hearts by faith; that ye, being rooted and grounded in love,

Believer receive the spirit not unbelkievers
 
preacher4truth said:
Exactly.
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Afraid not

You assume those are the only two option

and that if one does not prescribe to calvinism or prevenient grace there is no other grace option available

that is just assumption which ignores the conviction of the spirit

correct your errors
 
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