Why do Evangelicals Always go to the Wrong Source:

brotherofJared said:
There is no need for me to prove your falsehoods. You believe that God made things out of nothing, that's all I need to know. Your religion is false.
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You would be wrong as usual. Here is what God's word in various translations says and the definition of the Greek word translated as "all things".

John 1:3

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

KJV

John 1:3

All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

NKJV

John 1:3

All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

ESV

John 1:3

Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

NIV

John 1:3

All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

NASU

John 1:3

He created everything there is-nothing exists that he didn't make.

TLB

The JST also used the the wpords "all things were made by Him"... not some or mostly everything.

NT:3956 “pas”

radically means "all." Used without the article it means "every," every kind or variety. So the RV marg. in Eph 2:21, "every building," and the text in 3:15, "every family," and the RV marg. of Acts 2:36, "every house"; or it may signify "the highest degree," the maximum of what is referred to, as, "with all boldness" Acts 4:29. Before proper names of countries, cities and nations, and before collective terms, like "Israel," it signifies either "all" or "the whole," e. g., Matt 2:3; Acts 2:36. Used with the article, it means the whole of one object. In the plural it signifies "the totality of the persons or things referred to." Used without a noun it virtually becomes a pronoun, meaning "everyone" or "anyone." In the plural with a noun it means "all." The neuter singular denotes "everything" or "anything whatsoever." One form of the neuter plural (panta) signifies "wholly, together, in all ways, in all things," Acts 20:35; 1 Cor 9:25. The neuter plural without the article signifies "all things severally," e. g., John 1:3; 1 Cor 2:10; preceded by the article it denotes "all things," as constituting a whole, e. g., Rom 11:36; 1 Cor 8:6; Eph 3:9. See EVERY, Note (1), WHOLE

(from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, Copyright © 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers.)

All means all, and that includes matter. Do you know why? Because He alone is God, and not some wimpy person who was once a man and worked his way to godhood conjured up in the mind of Joseph Smith. Scripture is specific. we as born again believers, actually believe and accept what God's word says. You on the other hand, do not.
 
organgrinder said:
You would be wrong as usual. Here is what God's word in various translations says and the definition of the Greek word translated as "all things".

John 1:3

All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

KJV

John 1:3

All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

NKJV

John 1:3

All things were made through him, and without him was not any thing made that was made.

ESV

John 1:3

Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

NIV

John 1:3

All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being.

NASU

John 1:3

He created everything there is-nothing exists that he didn't make.

TLB

The JST also used the the wpords "all things were made by Him"... not some or mostly everything.

NT:3956 “pas”

radically means "all." Used without the article it means "every," every kind or variety. So the RV marg. in Eph 2:21, "every building," and the text in 3:15, "every family," and the RV marg. of Acts 2:36, "every house"; or it may signify "the highest degree," the maximum of what is referred to, as, "with all boldness" Acts 4:29. Before proper names of countries, cities and nations, and before collective terms, like "Israel," it signifies either "all" or "the whole," e. g., Matt 2:3; Acts 2:36. Used with the article, it means the whole of one object. In the plural it signifies "the totality of the persons or things referred to." Used without a noun it virtually becomes a pronoun, meaning "everyone" or "anyone." In the plural with a noun it means "all." The neuter singular denotes "everything" or "anything whatsoever." One form of the neuter plural (panta) signifies "wholly, together, in all ways, in all things," Acts 20:35; 1 Cor 9:25. The neuter plural without the article signifies "all things severally," e. g., John 1:3; 1 Cor 2:10; preceded by the article it denotes "all things," as constituting a whole, e. g., Rom 11:36; 1 Cor 8:6; Eph 3:9. See EVERY, Note (1), WHOLE

(from Vine's Expository Dictionary of Biblical Words, Copyright © 1985, Thomas Nelson Publishers.)

All means all, and that includes matter. Do you know why? Because He alone is God, and not some wimpy person who was once a man and worked his way to godhood conjured up in the mind of Joseph Smith. Scripture is specific. we as born again believers, actually believe and accept what God's word says. You on the other hand, do not.
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As one author observed, the Greek text does not teach ex nihilo, but creation out of pre-existing raw materials, since the verb ktidzo "carried an architectural connotation...as in 'to build' or 'establish' a city.... Thus, the verb presupposes the presence of already existing material."[1]

One must not overlook 2 Corinthians 4:18, which states that "the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal"—suggesting that aspects of the created "unseen world" are eternal, despite the exercise of God's creative power upon them.

LDS doctrine sees creation as an act of organizing pre-existing, eternal matter and intelligence. (See D&C 93:29, D&C 131:7.)

lds.org
 
Richard7 said:
As one author observed, the Greek text does not teach ex nihilo, but creation out of pre-existing raw materials, since the verb ktidzo "carried an architectural connotation...as in 'to build' or 'establish' a city.... Thus, the verb presupposes the presence of already existing material."[1]

One must not overlook 2 Corinthians 4:18, which states that "the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal"—suggesting that aspects of the created "unseen world" are eternal, despite the exercise of God's creative power upon them.

LDS doctrine sees creation as an act of organizing pre-existing, eternal matter and intelligence. (See D&C 93:29, D&C 131:7.)

lds.org
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Nothing means what it says-- nothing. The scripture in John 1:3 says "all things". All things includes matter from which everything else is made. Your LDS theology is flawed on this issue. And you make a statement with no backing. One author... who might that be? and the verb "ktidzo" might carry an architectural connotation, but matter would be necessary. God made matter from nothing. Matter is something God made. Too bad you don't understand that.
 
Richard7 said:
As one author observed, the Greek text does not teach ex nihilo, but creation out of pre-existing raw materials, since the verb ktidzo "carried an architectural connotation...as in 'to build' or 'establish' a city.... Thus, the verb presupposes the presence of already existing material."[1]

One must not overlook 2 Corinthians 4:18, which states that "the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal"—suggesting that aspects of the created "unseen world" are eternal, despite the exercise of God's creative power upon them.

LDS doctrine sees creation as an act of organizing pre-existing, eternal matter and intelligence. (See D&C 93:29, D&C 131:7.)

lds.org
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The Bible indicates that there was pre-existing material. The idea that God created everything immediately starts getting exceptions as soon as you start to point out that there's obvious things that God didn't create like Jesus didn't create his father. And if he did doesn't that make Jesus the father?
 
organgrinder said:
Nothing means what it says-- nothing. The scripture in John 1:3 says "all things". All things includes matter from which everything else is made. Your LDS theology is flawed on this issue. And you make a statement with no backing. One author... who might that be? and the verb "ktidzo" might carry an architectural connotation, but matter would be necessary. God made matter from nothing. Matter is something God made. Too bad you don't understand that.
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Prove me wrong, never mind, I have tried that before and you just wonder away until you find someone else to fault... never any debating with you. chuckle.

The Greek text does not teach ex nihilo, but creation out of pre-existing raw materials, since the verb ktidzo "carried an architectural connotation...as in 'to build' or 'establish' a city.
 
Elijah the Tishbite said:
Out of Nothing is what the Book of Mormon teaches ​

God created the heaven and the earth by His word: Mormon 9:17; Jacob 4:9.
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That's right, that's what we teach. Its like me building a house, as the general Contractor all I have to do is talk my employees through the construction process and bingo, house get built ... chuckle.
 
brotherofJared said:
The Bible indicates that there was pre-existing material. The idea that God created everything immediately starts getting exceptions as soon as you start to point out that there's obvious things that God didn't create like Jesus didn't create his father. And if he did doesn't that make Jesus the father?
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Flawed point. God made everything, including matter. Deal with it. The father, Son and Holy Spirit consist of one God in three distinct persons of the godhead. You don't accept it for the same reason you don't accept God creating matter ex nihilo. You don't believe what God's word says
 
Richard7 said:
Prove me wrong, never mind, I have tried that before and you just wonder away until you find someone else to fault... never any debating with you. chuckle.

The Greek text does not teach ex nihilo, but creation out of pre-existing raw materials, since the verb ktidzo "carried an architectural connotation...as in 'to build' or 'establish' a city.
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I have given you the material. Blind eyes can't see not comprehend. Your God needs material to create. Our God created everything from nothing. That is why He alone is God. Yours... not so much.
 
organgrinder said:
I have given you the material. Blind eyes can't see not comprehend. Your God needs material to create. Our God created everything from nothing. That is why He alone is God. Yours... not so much.
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They teach this heresy because they believe the "elements" are eternal as taught in D&C (D&C 93). It's another wacky idea of Joseph Smith. We know that John 1 says that in the beginning was "The Word," not "The Word and the elements." According to God's Word:

Colossians 1:16-17 NKJVFor by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

So, the Lord Jesus created the elements that make up this world and the heavens. The Material world is a created entity, not an eternal entity. Only God is eternal.

And this thread proves that Mormons just don't give a heck what the Bible says - their false prophet and his false prophecies trump God's Word. Unless Mormons are delivered supernaturally from these false beliefs they will be judged for their sin by Jesus Christ, the Eternal God, Second Person of the Trinity - and they'll get no pass because they put their faith in Joseph Smith.
 
organgrinder said:
I have given you the material. Blind eyes can't see not comprehend. Your God needs material to create. Our God created everything from nothing. That is why He alone is God. Yours... not so much.
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No, you gave me your take on some scripture... you're not willing to debate correct translation of Greek meaning... now wonder away, you came up empty as usual.
 
Catherineaurelia said:
They teach this heresy because they believe the "elements" are eternal as taught in D&C (D&C 93). It's another wacky idea of Joseph Smith. We know that John 1 says that in the beginning was "The Word," not "The Word and the elements." According to God's Word:

Colossians 1:16-17 NKJVFor by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him. And He is before all things, and in Him all things consist.

So, the Lord Jesus created the elements that make up this world and the heavens. The Material world is a created entity, not an eternal entity. Only God is eternal.

And this thread proves that Mormons just don't give a heck what the Bible says - their false prophet and his false prophecies trump God's Word. Unless Mormons are delivered supernaturally from these false beliefs they will be judged for their sin by Jesus Christ, the Eternal God, Second Person of the Trinity - and they'll get no pass because they put their faith in Joseph Smith.
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Chuckle, God himself is made up of material, even if invisible He has substance... who created the substance which God is made of.... so material is eternal, not made from nothing... chuckle
 
Richard7 said:
Chuckle, God himself is made up of material, even if invisible He has substance... who created the substance which God is made of.... so material is eternal, not made from nothing... chuckle
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Richard7 said:
Chuckle, God himself is made up of material, even if invisible He has substance... who created the substance which God is made of.... so material is eternal, not made from nothing... chuckle
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:)The Bible and Book of Mormon disagree with Richard 7:) ​
 
Richard7 said:
Chuckle, God himself is made up of material, even if invisible He has substance... who created the substance which God is made of.... so material is eternal, not made from nothing... chuckle
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Ralf... God made everything from nothing (ex nihilo). You and your church theologians don't understand it because you look at creation as a natural event with God using pre-existing material. It was not natural but supernatural. And the Bible says God is a Spirit.

God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
(John 4:24 NKJV)

The Mormon god is too puny and is the concoction of human reasoning. The God of the Bible is supernatural and created everything, including matter from which the earth itself and the heavens were made. You can foolishly continue believing in the Mormon god or believe in the God of the Bible Who created absolutely everything, starting with matter.
 
organgrinder said:
Ralf... God made everything from nothing (ex nihilo). You and your church theologians don't understand it because you look at creation as a natural event with God using pre-existing material. It was not natural but supernatural. And the Bible says God is a Spirit.

God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth."
(John 4:24 NKJV)

The Mormon god is too puny and is the concoction of human reasoning. The God of the Bible is supernatural and created everything, including matter from which the earth itself and the heavens were made. You can foolishly continue believing in the Mormon god or believe in the God of the Bible Who created absolutely everything, starting with matter.
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Are you telling everyone that spirit is not substance. Oh boy! ?
 
Richard7 said:
Are you telling everyone that spirit is not substance. Oh boy! ?
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What do you think spirit is, Ralf?

Since you deflected from the scriptures earlier, let me ask you this: What is matter? How did matter come into being? Did God make matter? How do you reconcile your answer with John 1:3 and Colossians 1:16-17?
 
brotherofJared said:
There is no need for me to prove your falsehoods. You believe that God made things out of nothing, that's all I need to know. Your religion is false.
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Of course not, since the LDS live one big falsehood in believing a known con man, it's no surprise Gods delusion set forth on the LDS causes them to deny the promises of The Way, The Truth and The Life.
 
Richard7 said:
Prove me wrong, never mind, I have tried that before and you just wonder away until you find someone else to fault... never any debating with you. chuckle.

The Greek text does not teach ex nihilo, but creation out of pre-existing raw materials, since the verb ktidzo "carried an architectural connotation...as in 'to build' or 'establish' a city.
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It is a matter of interpretation since the scriptures do not specifically say, "created out of nothing". The whole idea of ex nihilo suggests an element of magic. Presto chango. It's complete nonsense but it gives their religion as sense of mystery akin to worshiping rocks or wood.
 
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