dingoling.
Well-known member
It sure did exist in the first century. Its first council was recorded for us in Acts 15.
The Immaculate Conception
- Thread starter Mysterium Fidei
- Start date
1Thess521
Well-known member
catholic: and another word Catholics have mangled
along with
prayer
baptism
saints
church
etc
How much corruption of Scripture is too much?
1Thess521
Well-known member
answer the question asked:
"But WHO made the final decision in Acts 15? Care to tell us?"
dingoling.
Well-known member
Show us a history of what you consider to be the church that Jesus founded starting from the present all the way back to the time of Jesus and the apostles.
dingoling.
Well-known member
Peter.
1Thess521
Well-known member
the collection of all believers is the church
1Thess521
Well-known member
not in my Bible
James had the final say after appealing to Scripture
dingoling.
Well-known member
I look at the Catholic church and it is the only church that has a history dating back to the time of Jesus and the apostles.
dingoling.
Well-known member
Nope, if you read it carefully it was Peter that had the final authority. Sorry, but you are wrong.
1Thess521
Well-known member
then in your careful reading: we are sure you have an answer to verses 15 and 19
"The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written
reference Scripture
“Therefore, It is my <James>judgment,...QUESTION---.> If Peter's words were not in agreement with the prophets: would James' response have been the same?
dingoling.
Well-known member
Not sure what you are asking. The issue was circumcision.
I am not sure what you are asking. The issue was circumcision and Peter was the first to address it. James was bishop of Jerusalem and part of the Magesterium and backed up Peter's decision.
1Thess521
Well-known member
you're not sure what I am asking:
i am rebuking YOUR claim that Peter made the final decision in Acts 15..
and I am asking your to actually address the verses I provided from Acts 15 .showing that Scripture is the highest authority, then James; and definitely NOT Peter
"The words of the prophets are in agreement with this, as it is written
reference Scripture
“Therefore, It is my <James>judgment,...
QUESTION---.> If Peter's words were not in agreement with the prophets: would James' response have been the same?
dingoling.
Well-known member
Scripture (OT) didn't say anything about Gentile believers needing to be circumcised.
Paul clearly states, "In former generations this mystery was not made known to humankind, as it has now been revealed to his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit: that is, the Gentiles have become fellow heirs, members of the same body, and sharers in the promise in Christ Jesus through the gospel."
It was a mystery, that was not made known, that the Gentiles were to be sharers in the promise in Christ Jesus. If that was a mystery, not made known, then how is it possible that Gentile believers didn't need to be circumcised not a mystery? How could scripture have decided the issue?
Also if scripture was their highest authority and decided the issue then why would Paul, Barnabas and others have gone up to Jerusalem? All they needed to do was just open up their Bibles and see what scripture said about it.
Bonnie
Super Member
Exactly. Which is why the Council in Jerusalem came about, in Acts 15.
Yes, indeed! Fellow heirs through the GOSPEL. NOT through formal membership in your church.
The Law of Moses was only for the Israelites and any foreigners who sojourned with them and became a part of their commonwealth. This can be shown from the LoM, where God says that the Israelites cannot eat clean animals who died of natural causes or due to accidents--the animals must have their throats slit. But those animals could be sold to the Gentiles who might be living near the Israelites.
But all of the LoM was fulfilled in Chirst Jesus.
But the point is, the Israelites DID know the Scriptures! But the Judaizer Christians focused too much on the Law, while ignoring what else the Scriptures said about the Gentiles. What did James do, to prove that the Gentiles did not need to follow the LoM to be saved? He quoted Scripture!
He quoted Scripture! Imagine that! Just as Jesus defeated Satan in the wilderness by quoting Scripture....not man-made dogmas and man-made teachings, but actual SCRIPTURE.
Bonnie
Super Member
Peter didn't make the final decision. Clean off your glasses. It was JAMES who made the final decision, after hearing all of the evidence. And he backed up that decision by quoting Scripture.
Imagine that....
dingoling.
Well-known member
James was addressing those who were under his authority and not speaking on behalf of the entire church - that was Peter. Peter made the final decision for the church and not just the Jewish believers.
Ps. you just admitted that scripture didn't make the final decision.
He was speaking on behalf of the whole Council, the main church was in Jerusalem. Not Rome. Peter never made the final decision that is a false claim, no surprise at all.
No Bonnie didn't say anything of the sort, that is you twisting her post and that is bearing false witness.
dingoling.
Well-known member
James was the bishop of Jerusalem and was not head of the church. Peter was the one Jesus gave authority over his church.
The main church was Jerusalem, if he was the bishop of Jerusalem then technically if you believe there is a head then it is James not Peter.
dingoling.
Well-known member
The were more than one bishop in the church and James wasn't in authority over those other bishops, but Peter was.