Conversion, the result of regeneration.

preacher4truth said:
Do you see me interacting with them? That's right, I'm not directly interacting with them. See how that works? :)

However at this juncture I'm dealing directly with your false accusations and willingness to cause division, strife, and sow discord. I don't do this for "lurkers" I do it for my LORD and my brothers and sisters on here.

Now run along, done with you. Thanks.
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How many more times will you say the empty words, I’m done with you now run along ?
 
PeanutGallery said:
At what point in time are they unregenerate; do you presuppose unregenerate before the foundation of the world, before any had done either good or evil?
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To not use All Scripture to come to a Conclusion, but attribute another person's Doctrine to Demons when they use All Scripture to come to their Conclusion; is to commit the Blasphemy of the Holy Ghost, since Scripture is God-Breathed...
 
I am going to attempt to show how the demoniac had free will to come to Christ on his own:

1. This man was possessed by demons (Mark 5:2)
2. He was naked(Luke 8:27)
3. He lived among the tombs and the wilderness(Mark 5:2, Luke 8:29)
4. He was so strong he could breaks the bonds and chains put on him(Mark 5:4)
5. He would cut himself(Mark 5:5)

As you can see, he was fully capable of coming to Christ apart from the Spirit.
 
ReverendRV said:
To not use All Scripture to come to a Conclusion, but attribute another person's Doctrine to Demons when they use All Scripture to come to their Conclusion; is to commit the Blasphemy of the Holy Ghost, since Scripture is God-Breathed...
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I think this can be the case when it is willfully being done. For the record I don't think anyone here is doing it in ignorance.

The many here are on a willful belligerency not only against the truths we put forward, but the persons doing it. They've been doing it for years, I don't see ignorance as a factor whatsoever.
 
The demoniac was cutting himself with stones. The Law will do that to you. Seeking to establish a righteousness apart from the righteousness of God is to deny the Gospel. He was naked, with no righteousness of his own. He lived in the tombs among the dead. After he met Jesus though, he was fully clothed(imputed righteousness) and in his right mind(repentance toward God, and faith toward our Lord Jesus Christ).
 
SovereignGrace said:
@4Him can check mine and @preacher4truth ’s IP’s and tell we are not the same person, Nick. I live in WVa, but I’m in Louisa, KY stuck at work due to ice this morning.

Now, run along, Phyllis, run along!!!
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Exactly. It's funny though, we are stuck in ice as well, and got more coming as we speak. School is already cancelled for our daughter tomorrow. That is 3 days in a row...
 
preacher4truth said:
Exactly. It's funny though, we are stuck in ice as well, and got more coming as we speak. School is already cancelled for our daughter tomorrow. That is 3 days in a row...
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If’n you have ice and I have ice, then are we the same? Am I youse? Are youse me? Are we’s twins? Oh the agony!!!!
 
Josheb said:
Maybe Bob was correct ;).

Regeneration is conversion. Conversion from what to what? From death to life.
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How is this different than what I said?
Josheb said:
Chronologically speaking, the first time we read of "regeneration in the New Testament is Matthew 19 and it is eschatological, not soteriological.

Matthew 19:28
And Jesus said to them, "Truly I say to you, that you who have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of Man will sit on His glorious throne, you also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Or I suppose we could say it is an overlap of eschatology and soteriology, but for our purposes it speaks of a future regeneration of the already regenerate. Thankfully, the unregenerate won't be judging the tribes of Israel. The Greek word here is "palingenesia," and some English translations translate the term as "renewal," which is curious because of the next text worth citing. Soteriologically speaking, the recently much debated in CARM text from Titus 3:5-7 states.

Titus 3:5-7
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out upon us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior, so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

Here in Titus we have both regeneration (palingenesia) and renewal (anakainōseōs). Some translations translate this "palingenesia" as "rebirth." This Titus regeneration is a regeneration of "washing." God saved us.... by the washing of regeneration. What is being washed? Well, the answer to that question might take several posts because the scriptures speak a great deal about washing but for now I'll suggest the chief washing is that of the washing away of sins and limit my post accordingly. Soteriologically speaking regeneration is the washing away of sins. We normally refer to washing in terms of sanctification, or being purified and made holy (separated for sacred purpose), so we see there is an overlap between regeneration and sanctification.

As to the "rebirth," that's how we typically connect palingenesia to John 3:3's "born again" or "born anew from above" (gennethe anothen). As far as the Greek goes these are not the same words. Shall I split more hairs? Jesus later informs his "born again" comment by saying, "you must be born again... born of the Spirit" (vss. 7-8). So, the rebirth or new birth of John 3:3 is a birth of the Spirit. Is it correct exegesis to connect this to the regeneration and renewal mentioned in Titus 3, after all that renewing is by the Holy Spirit. According to 1 Peter 1:2 the Holy Spirit is also what does the sanctifying but there are probably at least a half dozen ways the scriptures speak of our sanctification (Jesus said his followers were sanctified in truth by his sanctification :unsure:).

Lastly, and I post this at the risk of provoking old, tiresome well-worn debates but Jesus said, "Truly, truly, I say to you, the one who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life" (Jn. 5:24). The Arminian and the other soteriological synergists read this to imply a sequence between hearing, believing, and then having eternal life, even though the word "then" is absent and there's no explicit report of sequence. They also read into the text some causations. A person doesn't believe unless they have heard, and they do not have eternal life unless they have believed. The Calvinist and those of the other monergist povs, on the other hand, see a simple statement of overlapping or co-occurring conditions. The one who hears (already) has eternal life. The one who believes (already) has eternal life. The one who has eternal life hears, the one who has eternal life believes. The synergist inserts a "then," and the monergist inserts an "already."


Off to work. There's more to be said but this is all I can post now. Have at it ;).
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preacher4truth said:
I think this can be the case when it is willfully being done. For the record I don't think anyone here is doing it in ignorance.

The many here are on a willful belligerency not only against the truths we put forward, but the persons doing it. They've been doing it for years, I don't see ignorance as a factor whatsoever.
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It was a thing that needed to be said...

Total Depravity agrees there is no one who does Good, no, not One. It's not a doctrine of demons, but is a Doctrine of the Holy Spirit...
 
Carbon said:
Regeneration is the work of God the Holy Spirit as He supernaturally and immediately changes the disposition of the soul from spiritual death to spiritual life.
Conversion is a result of regeneration. When we are converted, we’re turned around and we move in a different direction. Sproul.


Conversion according to scripture involves a change of mind, a change in the evaluation of things. After conversion a man fosters different views concerning God and Christ and sin and salvation than he did before his conversion.

1 Corinthians 2:
12 Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. 13 And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.

14 The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. 15 The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one.

Regeneration is first in the order of salvation.
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The beginning of salvation:
The Holy Spirit actualities the beginning of salvation in the elect (God’s chosen) as He establishes the mystical union between Christ and them.
This must take place before anyone can believe because Christ is the fountain of salvation and all good things come through Him.
 
Carbon said:
The beginning of salvation:
The Holy Spirit actualities the beginning of salvation in the elect (God’s chosen) as He establishes the mystical union between Christ and them.
This must take place before anyone can believe because Christ is the fountain of salvation and all good things come through Him.
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Jesus said so himself.

John 15:5
I am the vine; you are the branches. Whoever abides in me and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing.
 
ReverendRV said:
It was a thing that needed to be said...

Total Depravity agrees there is no one who does Good, no, not One. It's not a doctrine of demons, but is a Doctrine of the Holy Spirit...
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So you believe Jesus was wrong when He said:Luk 11:10 - For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.
 
Carbon said:
The beginning of salvation:
The Holy Spirit actualities the beginning of salvation in the elect (God’s chosen) as He establishes the mystical union between Christ and them.
This must take place before anyone can believe because Christ is the fountain of salvation and all good things come through Him.
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Only through a union with him by faith

Your view lacks christocentricity

its faith first then life

John 20:31 (KJV 1900) — 31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
 
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