John 5:19 - Is Jesus limited to what the Father does?

Biblican said:
A Jewish man once said to me, "We don't need a middleman!" If the Jews didn't need Moses as their middleman then they would all still be slaves in Egypt. The precedent for God using middlemen is clearly present in scripture. And Moses said that God would raise up a prophet like him (a doer of miracles) another middleman, and any one who would not listen to him would be cut off.
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All irrelevant. I am me, and I pray directly to God, no middleman.
 
Biblican said:
A Jewish man once said to me, "We don't need a middleman!" If the Jews didn't need Moses as their middleman then they would all still be slaves in Egypt.
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They didn't pray to Moses.

Biblican said:
The precedent for God using middlemen is clearly present in scripture. And Moses said that God would raise up a prophet like him (a doer of miracles) another middleman, and any one who would not listen to him would be cut off.
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A prophet with human parents, who follows and teaches Torah.
 
Jewjitzu said:
In the Mormon Bible.

The NT isn't part of the Jewish Holy Bible.
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While Mormons believe in the general accuracy of the modern day text of the Bible, they also believe that it is incomplete and that errors have been introduced. Just like the Jews do today. Neither are Born Again and in the need of a Savior.
 
SPOKENWORD said:
While Mormons believe in the general accuracy of the modern day text of the Bible, they also believe that it is incomplete and that errors have been introduced. Just like the Jews do today. Neither are Born Again and in the need of a Savior.
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You don't seem to get it. JUST LIKE you do not accept the addition of the Book of Mormon to your Bible, we Jews also don't accept the addition of your New Testament to our sacred texts.
 
SPOKENWORD said:
While Mormons believe in the general accuracy of the modern day text of the Bible, they also believe that it is incomplete and that errors have been introduced. Just like the Jews do today.
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That's because the NT is incorrect and adds and subtracts from the law.

SPOKENWORD said:
Neither are Born Again and in the need of a Savior.
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God is our Savior. God saved Jesus as well. He cried for it, Heb 5:7.
 
Jewjitzu said:
When did Jesus cast out Satan?
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Mark 3:20-35​

20 Jesus went home with his disciples, and such a crowd collected that they could not even have a meal. 21 When his relatives heard of this, they set out to take charge of him, convinced he was out of his mind.
22 The scribes who had come down from Jerusalem were saying ‘Beelzebul is in him,’ and, ‘It is through the prince of devils that he casts devils out.’ 23 So he called them to him and spoke to them in parables. ‘How can Satan cast out Satan? 24 If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot last. 25 And if a household is divided against itself, that household can never stand. 26 Now if Satan has rebelled against himself and is divided, he cannot stand either – it is the end of him. 27 But no-one can make his way into a strong man’s house and burgle his property unless he has tied up the strong man first. Only then can he burgle his house.
28 ‘I tell you solemnly, all men’s sins will be forgiven, and all their blasphemies; 29 but let anyone blaspheme against the Holy Spirit and he will never have forgiveness: he is guilty of an eternal sin.’ 30 This was because they were saying, ‘An unclean spirit is in him.’
31 His mother and brothers now arrived, and, standing outside, sent in a message asking for him. 32 A crowd was sitting round him at the time the message was passed to him, ‘Your mother and brothers and sisters are outside asking for you.’ 33 He replied, ‘Who are my mother and my brothers?’ 34 And looking round at those sitting in a circle about him, he said, ‘Here are my mother and my brothers. 35 Anyone who does the will of God, that person is my brother and sister and mother.’
 
SPOKENWORD said:

Mark 3:20-35​

20 Jesus went home with his disciples, and such a crowd collected that they could not even have a meal. 21 When his relatives heard of this, they set out to take charge of him, convinced he was out of his mind.
22 The scribes who had come down from Jerusalem were saying ‘Beelzebul is in him,’ and, ‘It is through the prince of devils that he casts devils out.’ 23 So he called them to him and spoke to them in parables. ‘How can Satan cast out Satan? 24 If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot last. 25 And if a household is divided against itself, that household can never stand. 26 Now if Satan has rebelled against himself and is divided, he cannot stand either – it is the end of him. 27 But no-one can make his way into a strong man’s house and burgle his property unless he has tied up the strong man first. Only then can he burgle his house.
28 ‘I tell you solemnly, all men’s sins will be forgiven, and all their blasphemies; 29 but let anyone blaspheme against the Holy Spirit and he will never have forgiveness: he is guilty of an eternal sin.’ 30 This was because they were saying, ‘An unclean spirit is in him.’
31 His mother and brothers now arrived, and, standing outside, sent in a message asking for him. 32 A crowd was sitting round him at the time the message was passed to him, ‘Your mother and brothers and sisters are outside asking for you.’ 33 He replied, ‘Who are my mother and my brothers?’ 34 And looking round at those sitting in a circle about him, he said, ‘Here are my mother and my brothers. 35 Anyone who does the will of God, that person is my brother and sister and mother.’
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Like I said, when did Jesus cast out Satan? The above doesn't say it.
 
SPOKENWORD said:
Didnt have to. Jesus was already anointed by the Father.
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Matt. 3:16-17 says, “When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, 'This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” That’s when He was anointed.
Jewjitzu said:
Where does it say that?
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Matt. 3:16-17 says, “When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, 'This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” That’s when He was anointed.
 
SPOKENWORD said:
Matt. 3:16-17 says, “When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, 'This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” That’s when He was anointed.

Matt. 3:16-17 says, “When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. 17 And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, 'This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.” That’s when He was anointed.
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Sorry, kings were anointed with oil as David was, etc.
 
Jewjitzu said:
I'm not insulting anyone. Miracles don't prove they came from God. Many people proclaim miracles. So what.

BTW, Jesus said blasphemy against him would be forgiven, but not to God. So they aren't the same person or spirit.
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But Jesus is the only one who gave sight to the blind which is one of the miracles that the Messiah is supposed to do. And that miracle is attributed to God Himself in the Old Testament.
Jesus and the Father are not the same person. They are unified by the Father's Holy Spirit. We are not to blaspheme the Holy Spirit by attributing works done by God to the devil.
 
Biblican said:
But Jesus is the only one who gave sight to the blind which is one of the miracles that the Messiah is supposed to do. And that miracle is attributed to God Himself in the Old Testament.
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Sorry, spiritual blindness is what is depicted in Isaiah. All miracles done by true prophets are attributed to God. Messiah would be no different.

Biblican said:
Jesus and the Father are not the same person. They are unified by the Father's Holy Spirit.
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Then they aren't one in the true sense of the word. Those that follow His will, spirit, are one with Him.

Biblican said:
We are not to blaspheme the Holy Spirit by attributing works done by God to the devil.
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And yet Jesus said blasphemy against him would be forgiven. He isn't God.
 
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Open Heart said:
All irrelevant. I am me, and I pray directly to God, no middleman.
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The point is you can't get into heaven without Jesus as your middleman so to speak. He is Joshua leading us into the promised land of eternallife. Isn't it intersting that God changed Joshua's name. The name Jesus is a derivative.
 
Biblican said:
The point is you can't get into heaven without Jesus as your middleman so to speak.
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That's false. There's zero support for your assertions in Tanakh, and that's all that matters.

Biblican said:
He is Joshua leading us into the promised land of eternallife. Isn't it intersting that God changed Joshua's name. The name Jesus is a derivative.
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Isn't it interesting that their name means that YH is salvation, not that they personally are salvation.
 
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