I dont have personal opinion. I am taught by the teachers Jesus appointed. The only teachers on earth who get holy spirit.
In The Beggining
- Thread starter James Jones
- Start date
Towerwatchman
Well-known member
If your educators were appointed by Jesus, one has to ask? After the educational “program” ; a simple question cannot be answered, how can the educational “program” be expected to answer the difficult questions.
Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
AND since Jesus wasn't "Created", that pretty much follows, doesn't it??
You cant even understand milk let alone the meat.
Jesus= Gods master worker of Prov 8--He tells all he was created 8:22-25--For some strange reason your translations have possessed, which makes 0 sense-Produced is correct- Produced me as the beginning of his way( creation) Brought forth with labor pains--- Coll 1:15-Jesus is the FIRSTBORN of all creation)-FACT-All creation occurred at the beginning.
Towerwatchman
Well-known member
Rather disingenuous. Let’s sum this up. Last couple of days you posted multiple explanations for god like but none that were supported by Jn 1:1 alone, vs I did.
The difference I see is that the WTS does not teach the Bible but it’s theology. When I studied the Bible our assignment was to write our commentary based on studying scripture. We studied one book at a time verse per verse, line per line and the supporting commentaries.
The WTS studies books which teach themes.
They study line per line each book and occasionally look up scriptural references.
The end result from the WTS is a well educated person who has a great understanding of WTS theology but not of scripture.
Vs the opposite which is well versed in scripture.
WTS preaching which I addressed several times, to which you could not counter.
Fact cant be countered. I shared fact. You opposed fact.
Towerwatchman
Well-known member
No, you do not share facts. If you did, we will be discussing manuscripts. What you shared with me is your personal opinion, or somebody else’s personal opinion.
personal opinions are not universal facts.
The LXX shows the error at John 1:1--you wont believe it. That isnt personal opinion its fact written centuries ago.
Towerwatchman
Well-known member
The Septuagint is the Greek translation of the old testament. The New Testament is written in Greek. Therefore the Septuagint does not apply.
Every Greek translation is that way-HoTheos to the true God when another is called Theos-god in the same paragraph. Its the whole reason for the difference. True God worship history proves it is fact as well.
Towerwatchman
Well-known member
When you find yourself in a hole first thing you should do is stop digging. Follow your line of thinking back to Hebrews.1 we have the father who is identified as ho theos addressing the son as ho theos twice.
And you keep forgetting to add that since John was told about the scroll in revelations and only Jesus is worthy to know what is in the scroll, then the angel telling John about the scroll had to have been Jesus. Or Jesus is just an angel.
Tell me at the first of revelations it was given to Jesus by God to tell them what will happen soon, then 1 angel was sent to John and it continues that John was a witness to Jesus about the word of God. Since only 1 angel was sent to John and John was a witness to only one about the word of God then the angel sent and Jesus had to be 1 and the same, as since only 1 was sent to John you could not have had 2 telling John the same information about the word of God at the same time?
Towerwatchman
Well-known member
Chapter and verse plse
Most likely an error in translating to mislead. Because if one reads Hebrews 1 verse 3--Jesus sat down at the right hand of the majesty=The only true God. verse 4- so he has become better than the angels to the extent that he has inherited a name more excellent than theirs--All who understand english see he is equal to the angels except for inheriting that name. The name which God made above other names. Psalm 45:7 proves it to--He has a God, and partners=angels. God appointed him king. God gave him all authority in heaven and on earth. If he were God, he already had all those things, do you understand that?
Rev 1:1--a revelation of Jesus Christ which God gave to him--- 2 beings here the giver = God, the receiver = Jesus--There is only one God. Paul said it best-1Cor 8:6--There is ONE GOD to all the FATHER.
At rev. 5: 1-11 only Jesus is worthy to take the scroll from the Father and open it and know what is in it. And starting at rev. 19:9 he is told to write the true words from God concerning the scroll because it continues at rev.22 something do not seal up these words you have written and it is talking about the scroll there. I will get to that part when I get time.
And Satan is addressed as ho theos at 2nd cor. 4:4. At https://hermeneutics.stackexchange.com >questions>it explains about Jesus being called ho theos.
Towerwatchman
Well-known member
Ho theos = definite article. = points to something or someone as the definite subject. Satan is identified as the god of this age.
Similar if I was stating that John worshiped a specific false god. 'The god John worships' =ho theos that john worships.'
The immediate text is always taken into consideration.
Or
Who is the god of this age?
Towerwatchman
Well-known member
Sorry, that is not what the text reads. No where does it state that Jesus became better than the angles. What we have is the Son being exalted above the angels. And in vs 8-9 is the climax, where the Father addresses the Son as HO THEOS twice.
Psalms 45:7
You love righteousness and hate wickedness;
Therefore God [Elohim], Your God [Elohim], has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.
Similar to
Hebrews 1:8 But to the Son He says:...
9 You have loved righteousness and hated lawlessness;
Therefore God [HO THEOS], Your God [HO THEOS}, has anointed You
With the oil of gladness more than Your companions.”
Notice that in both the OT and the NT God uses the same identification for Himself and the one He anoints.
Elohim in the OT and HO THEOS in the NT.
How many times are you going to ignore the error in the WTS' reasoning?
If the reference that the Father being “one God” proves that Jesus is not God, then by the same logic the reference that Jesus is “one Lord” means that the Father is not “Lord”. Matt 11:25 Jesus refers to the Father as God and Lord. It is illogical to conclude from this vs. that Jesus is not God as to conclude that the Father is not Lord.
Wanna give a try?
Yes exalted above them because of the name God gave him which is better than theirs.
Heb 1:8 isnt calling Jesus-Ho Theos-Its saying God is his God. Same at psalms-saying God is Jesus' God, just as Jesus teaches-John 20:17--You refuse to believe Jesus.
Towerwatchman
Well-known member
Bad English or expression. When Jesus was exalted He did not become better.
Exalted = of a person or their rank or status) placed at a high or powerful level; held in high regard.
When a captain is exalted to the rank of major, the major does not become better than the captains.
This is really bad and sad at the same time. Intent is prior to content. Yes Heb 1:8 does state that God is Jesus God, but is that all?
Therefore God [HO THEOS], Your God [HO THEOS}, has anointed You.
What a coincidence you forgot to write that along with stating that The Father says He is Jesus' God, the Father also identified Jesus as God, HO THEOS.
Really? Therefore God [Elohim], Your God [Elohim], has anointed You
When the same word that is used for YHWH is used to identify another person, the author is identifying both as YHWH.
John 20:17 "Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.'" Jesus returned to his God and to our God, he returned to his Father and our Father. But who did he return to? Who is Jesus' Father? Who is Jesus' God?
This is because of the relationship between Jesus and God vs. humanity and God. If Jesus is a created being should have addressed it as our God and our Father. Jesus said this because He is God’s Son by nature vs. humanity being God’s children by creation. Being God Jesus has a different relationship with God and the Father than man has. That is why Jesus said ‘my Father and your Father, to my God and your God', and not ‘our Father and our God.
The only record we have of Jesus ever saying 'Our Father" is when He instructed His Apostles on how to pray. Apart from this the is no record of Jesus saying 'our Father or our God",