What is the salvific effect of the Cross?

dingoling. said:
There is no verse in scripture that says we are saved by faith alone. Those are the words of men. Show us were God says that we are saved by faith alone. Thanks.
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I still don't know why you keep inserting the word "alone". I have 46 translations of the New Testament in my smartphone app, and "alone" is found in Eph.2:8 in none – not one – of them.

So please tell us why we should defend your addition of a word to Scripture? Especially when you turn around and try to appear clever by saying "it's not there!" Yeah, it wasn't there until you stuck it in!

--Rich
"Esse quam videri"
 
A new day said:
The rc encyclopedia, calls it a "gift". It is no longer a gift, if you have to work for it or earn it. Gifts are given by a giver, and the giver never demands payment for the gift. A gift is UNearned.
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That is an excellent point that RCs do not seem to see. They think they need to jump through hoops to earn a FREE gift.
 
ramcam2 said:
in other words it is 'faith alone"?
how do you understand ephesians2: 10 No, we are his design; God has created us in Christ Jesus, pledged to such good actions as he has prepared beforehand, to be the employment of our lives.
After being saved initially by the grace of God, can we still enter heaven if we fail to do this good actions/works?
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How can someone who is saved want to do evil actions/works? Once saved God makes us a new creature.

2 Cor 5:17

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come

Rom 6:6

We know that our old self was crucified with him in order that the body of sin might be brought to nothing, so that we would no longer be enslaved to sin.

eph 4:22+

To put off your old self, which belongs to your former manner of life and is corrupt through deceitful desires, and to be renewed in the spirit of your minds, and to put on the new self, created after the likeness of God in true righteousness and holiness.

All God's work not ours.
 
RiJoRi said:
I still don't know why you keep inserting the word "alone". I have 46 translations of the New Testament in my smartphone app, and "alone" is found in Eph.2:8 in none – not one – of them.

So please tell us why we should defend your addition of a word to Scripture? Especially when you turn around and try to appear clever by saying "it's not there!" Yeah, it wasn't there until you stuck it in!

--Rich
"Esse quam videri"
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CLAP, CLAP, CLAP my point exactly.
 
ing I am repeating my post 583 and 594

You don't even clearly state your beliefs, so therefore no verses at all to support them. I have asked but you keep running away and do not stand up and clearly state:

a. What saves us?????
b. Give the scriptural supports for said beliefs????
c. Whose righteousness??????

WAITING, WAITING, WAITING

and I am still WAITING, WAITING, WAITING for a clear simple answer.
 
ramcam2 said:
Atemi said:
If it is impossible to have an invalid consecration, your church would not have to teach about it.

You seriously did not know that your wafers have to be validly consecrated in order to supposedly become Jesus?

I have not many Catholics that did not know that!
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did i mention valid consecration or invalid consecration?
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You even tried to deny the Catholic teaching that not every Mass everyone attends has a valid consecration!

LOL.


ramcam2 said:
like in the other sacraments, there are requirements to be met for its validity
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Thank you for admitting that not every Mass everyone attends has a valid consecration.

Ya know, that fact and Catholic teaching you tried to deny. You should have just affirmed my post instead of doing this lame dance of deflection.
 
dingoling. said:
No, we can't find the word of God that says we are saved by faith alone and not by works.
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BECAUSE the word of God says we are JUSTIFIED by faith apart from the works of the Law and works done in righteousness.

So unless you can tell us what other categories of works exist: then we will go with....
we are JUSTIFIED by God by faith apart from work of ANY kind
 
A new day said:
Exactly my thoughts too. Who does that? No one gives a gift, with a bill for it.
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Worse, if someone gave you a gift, and you tried to pay them for it, they would be deeply insulted!
You get a bouquet of flowers for your girl to show your love, and she says, "Thanks! Now here's $10 to pay for them!" ?

--Rich
 
dingoling. said:
If scripture alone is your final/sole authority then the ball is in your court. Scripture doesn't say that we are saved by faith alone. Those are the words of men and according to the nCCs, the words of men are not the final/sole authority.
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If we are not saved by faith alone can you tell us what you must add to faith for salvation?
 
Mack said:
If we are not saved by faith alone can you tell us what you must add to faith for salvation?
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[Some] of the messages of salvation: "Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is of any avail, but faith working through love."

"For God will render unto every man according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing [good works] seek for glory and honor and immortality, He will give eternal life."

"Baptism, which corresponds to this [Noah and his family being saved through water], now saves you."

"For God so loved the world that He sent His only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life."

"He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life."

"If you would enter life, keep the commandments."

"Strive for peace with all men, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord."

"And if children, then heirs, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with Him in order that we may also be glorified with Him."
 
Arch Stanton said:
[Some] of the messages of salvation: "Neither circumcision nor uncircumcision is of any avail, but faith working through love."

"For God will render unto every man according to his works: to those who by patience in well-doing [good works] seek for glory and honor and immortality, He will give eternal life."

"Baptism, which corresponds to this [Noah and his family being saved through water], now saves you."

"For God so loved the world that He sent His only Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have eternal life."

"He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life."

"If you would enter life, keep the commandments."

"Strive for peace with all men, and for the holiness without which no one will see the Lord."

"And if children, then heirs, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, provided we suffer with Him in order that we may also be glorified with Him."
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Gal.5:6 tells us how faith works, but it doesn't add anything to faith.

In Rom.2:6-7 God rewards a life of faith in pursuit of salvation. Nothing added to faith here.

'Baptism' has not been assigned as an agent of expiation/regeneration. Peter says baptism is a figure of that which saves. Nothing added here.

Eating flesh and drinking blood cannot produce eternal life. Jesus was speaking figuratively. Nothing added here.

Keeping the commandments does not possess the ability to regenerate and convert for salvation. Nothing here.

In Heb.12:14 holiness is the product of salvation, not the cause. Nothing here.

Our identification with Christ is the result of salvation, not the cause of salvation. Nothing here.
 
Mack said:
Gal.5:6 tells us how faith works, but it doesn't add anything to faith.

In Rom.2:6-7 God rewards a life of faith in pursuit of salvation. Nothing added to faith here.

'Baptism' has not been assigned as an agent of expiation/regeneration. Peter says baptism is a figure of that which saves. Nothing added here.

Eating flesh and drinking blood cannot produce eternal life. Jesus was speaking figuratively. Nothing added here.

Keeping the commandments does not possess the ability to regenerate and convert for salvation. Nothing here.

In Heb.12:14 holiness is the product of salvation, not the cause. Nothing here.

Our identification with Christ is the result of salvation, not the cause of salvation. Nothing here.
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This is a perfect example of your personal, fallible, interpretations of scripture have defined your theology. ? ?
 
Arch Stanton said:
This is a perfect example of your personal, fallible, interpretations of scripture have defined your theology. ? ?
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Everyone of these statements are based in the objective Word of God. Peter tells us we are not to engage in private interpretation, 2 Pet.1:21
 
Mack said:
Everyone of these statements are based in the objective Word of God. Peter tells us we are not to engage in private interpretation, 2 Pet.1:21
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and Christ tells us -- unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you.

Who is the correct authority to decide? you? me? a thousand other posters on carm with different interpretations? ?‍♂️
 
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