Covenantbreakers

Mesenja said:
hat trick

noun

  1. three successes of the same kind, especially consecutive ones within a limited period.
    "the band completes the trilogy, making for a dubious musical hat trick"
    • (chiefly in ice hockey or soccer) the scoring of three goals in a game by one player.
      noun: hat trick; plural noun: hat tricks
    • (in cricket) the taking of three wickets by the same bowler with successive balls.

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How Was the Book of Mormon Translated? Hat Trick


David Whitmer, one of the three witnesses whose statement is found in the Introduction of the Book of Mormon, had this to say concerning how the Book of Mormon was translated from the gold plates:


I will now give you a description of the manner in which the Book of Mormon was translated. Joseph Smith would put the seer stone into a hat, and put his face in the hat, drawing it closely around his face to exclude the light; and in the darkness the spiritual light would shine. A piece of something resembling parchment would appear, and on that appeared the writing. One character at a time would appear, and under it was the interpretation in English. Brother Joseph would read off the English to Oliver Cowdery, who was his principal scribe, and when it was written down and repeated to Brother Joseph to see if it was correct, then it would disappear, and another character with the interpretation would appear. Thus the Book of Mormon was translated by the gift and power of God, and not by any power of man. (An Address to All Believers in Christ, David Whitmer, Richmond, Mo., 1887, p. 12)
 
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Mesenja said:
Salvation by faith alone is unbiblical.
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Mesenja,

Here, let me post this again for you, because you obviously didn't read it

And you can't reject it just because it refutes Mormon beliefs!



Genesis 15:6 Then he (Abraham) believed in the LORD; and He reckoned it to him as righteousness.

Romans 4:3 For what does the Scripture say? "ABRAHAM believed GOD, AND IT WAS CREDITED to him as righteousness."

Galatians 3:6 Even so Abraham BELIEVED GOD, AND IT WAS RECKONED to him as righteousness.

Philippians 3:9 And may be found in Him, not having a righteousness of my own derived from the Law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which comes from God on the basis of faith

Do you see the word 'work' anywhere associated with the means whereby God credited righteousness to Abraham and Paul based
on their faith in the above scriptures?

And what is more, what about the thief on the cross?

Luke 23:39-43 One of the criminals who were hanged there was hurling abuse at Him, saying, "Are You not the Christ? Save Yourself and us!"
But the other answered, and rebuking him said, "Do you not even fear God, since you are under the same sentence of condemnation? "And we indeed are suffering justly, for we are receiving what we deserve for our deeds; but this man has done nothing wrong." And he was saying, "Jesus, remember me (faith) when You come in Your kingdom!" And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise."

Do you see works here associated with the thief's saving faith?


And what is more, what about Habakkuk 2:4? You know that scripture is the reference for the scriptures Romans 1:17; Galatians 3:11; and Hebrews 10:38, right?

Galatians 3:11 Now that no one is justified by the Law before God is evident; for, "THE RIGHTEOUS man shall live by faith."


Can you build a structure that will endure without a solid foundation?


In the Bible, saving faith, being born again, justifies you before God and He credits you with Jesus' righteousness, just like Paul stated.

This saving faith is the foundation you must have before you build on it with works (John 15:1-11)

Jesus says so in Matthew 7:21-27 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter. "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART from ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE lawlessness.' "Therefore everyone who hears these words of Mine and acts on them, may be compared to a wise man who built his house on the rock. "And the rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and yet it did not fall, for it had been founded on the rock (Jesus). "Everyone who hears these words of Mine and does not act on them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand. "The rain fell, and the floods came, and the winds blew and slammed against that house; and it fell—and great was its fall."

In this scripture Jesus is explicitly saying works without saving faith and a personal relationship with Him, will only lead you to hell.

The foundation is faith in Christ alone


And what is more, consider 1 Corinthians 3:10-15,

1 Corinthians 3:10-15 According to the grace of God which was given to me, like a wise master builder I laid a foundation, and another is building on it. But each man must be careful how he builds on it. For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. Now if any man builds on the foundation with gold, silver, precious stones, wood, hay, straw, each man's work will become evident; for the day will show it because it is to be revealed with fire, and the fire itself will test the quality of each man's work. If any man's work which he has built on it remains, he will receive a reward. If any man's work is burned up, he will suffer loss; but he himself will be saved, yet so as through fire.

I sure hope you grasp what this scripture is saying about salvation in Jesus Christ by faith alone!

Your problem is that you have to pull proof texts out of Biblical Scripture to support your bad Mormon theology, and you are completely
unaware of all that God's Biblical Scripture says.



RCM
 
brotherofJared said:
Why don't you look it up and then show me where my argument is about the definition of faith. :rolleyes:

First, learn what the argument is about and then you can participate.

Your problem is that you don't know what the argument is.
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brotherofJared,


I guess this is your way of saying you can't defend your position after Biblical Scripture refuted your argument?


RCM
 
brotherofJared said:
No, he isn't. Your OP starts by accusing us of being covenant breakers. That is the heading for this entire thread. Those are the goalposts.
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brotherofJared,

That is correct, by your own Mormon scriptures

And you both have been trying to avoid the fact that it is true


RCM
 
Mesenja said:
By the way Jesus started a cult called Christianity.
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Mesenja,

Now, this statement really intrigues me,


Are you rejecting the Biblical Jesus and the Bible and the Biblical God?

You should you know, because the Biblical God contradicts the Mormon God, the Bible contradicts the Book of Mormon, and the
Biblical Jesus contradicts the Mormon Jesus.


If you want to defend your beliefs, do it with the Book of Mormon, don't use the Bible if you want to keep all the lies and contradictions hidden.



RCM
 
Mesenja said:
I didn't know that there were episodes of the Twilight Zone about brainwashing. I'll have to look this up. I do know there was a movie on the subject called The Manchurian Candidate directed and produced by John Frankenheimer.
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Don't bother fact-checking. I was making a pun on the fantasy world that our critics tend to live in. And the twilight zone is a fantasy world.
 
brotherofJared said:
Thank you. Will u go so far as to say that it is u who is moving the goalposts?
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brotherofJared,

You take my quote "That is correct" out of context and then twist everything around to try and make it look like I am doing what you are doing.

EDITED--rule 12
Let me repost my statement for you,

brotherofJared,

That is correct, by your own Mormon scriptures

And you both have been trying to avoid the fact that it is true





brotherofJared,

The obvious is that you can't deal with the truth and facts, so you have to play games.

You have been denying that it has been shown that Mormons are Covenantbreakers by your own scriptures, here is the original post.



LDS who are baptized have taken a vow that promises to keep all the laws and commandments of God.

Each Sunday when they partake of the sacrament they re-pledge and renew that vow again as they commit their allegiance and faithfulness as they
promise and covenant that they will keep all of God's commandments.

Commandment and Covenant keeping is a requirement of the LDS faith, yet all LDS have broken their vow and are Covenantbreakers.

President Brigham Young said: “It is present salvation and the present influence of the Holy Ghost that we need every day to keep us on saving ground.
When an individual refuses to comply with the further requirements of Heaven, then the sins he had formerly committed return upon his head; his former righteousness departs from him, and is not accounted to him for righteousness: only through baptism, the laying on of hands, and obeying the commandments of the Lord and all that is required of him by the heavens—the living oracles. He is saved now, next week, next year, and continually, and is prepared for the celestial kingdom of God whenever the time comes for him to inherit it.” (In Journal of Discourses, 8:124.)

All means all with no exceptions

D&C 82:7 states, "Unto that soul who sinneth shall the former sins return,"

D&C 88:22 states, "For he who is not able to abide to the law of a celestial kingdom cannot abide a celestial glory."

Clearly, LDS Scripture states that, "Those who receive forgiveness and then repeat the sin are held accountable for their former sins."

Clearly, LDS Scripture states that, "If you cannot keep the celestial covenant vow in this life, you do not deserve celestial glory."

The question for LDS is, "Which one of you has never repeated a sin?"

The question for LDS is, "How do you intend to attain the Celestial Kingdom when you are a Covenantbreaker?"

But, I guess if the LDS god who was once a fallen sinful man who may have been a thief, a liar, a moneygrubber, a swearer, or an adulterer
and yet, he made it, so I guess you will be able to also?



RCM
 
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RCM said:
brotherofJared,

You take my quote "That is correct" out of context and then twist everything around to try and make it look like I am doing what you are doing.

What a deceptive Mormon you are, they have trained you well

Let me repost my statement for you,

brotherofJared,

That is correct, by your own Mormon scriptures

And you both have been trying to avoid the fact that it is true





brotherofJared,

The obvious is that you can't deal with the truth and facts, so you have to play games.

You have been denying that it has been shown that Mormons are Covenantbreakers by your own scriptures, here is the original post.



LDS who are baptized have taken a vow that promises to keep all the laws and commandments of God.

Each Sunday when they partake of the sacrament they re-pledge and renew that vow again as they commit their allegiance and faithfulness as they
promise and covenant that they will keep all of God's commandments.

Commandment and Covenant keeping is a requirement of the LDS faith, yet all LDS have broken their vow and are Covenantbreakers.

President Brigham Young said: “It is present salvation and the present influence of the Holy Ghost that we need every day to keep us on saving ground.
When an individual refuses to comply with the further requirements of Heaven, then the sins he had formerly committed return upon his head; his former righteousness departs from him, and is not accounted to him for righteousness: only through baptism, the laying on of hands, and obeying the commandments of the Lord and all that is required of him by the heavens—the living oracles. He is saved now, next week, next year, and continually, and is prepared for the celestial kingdom of God whenever the time comes for him to inherit it.” (In Journal of Discourses, 8:124.)

All means all with no exceptions

D&C 82:7 states, "Unto that soul who sinneth shall the former sins return,"

D&C 88:22 states, "For he who is not able to abide to the law of a celestial kingdom cannot abide a celestial glory."

Clearly, LDS Scripture states that, "Those who receive forgiveness and then repeat the sin are held accountable for their former sins."

Clearly, LDS Scripture states that, "If you cannot keep the celestial covenant vow in this life, you do not deserve celestial glory."

The question for LDS is, "Which one of you has never repeated a sin?"

The question for LDS is, "How do you intend to attain the Celestial Kingdom when you are a Covenantbreaker?"

But, I guess if the LDS god who was once a fallen sinful man who may have been a thief, a liar, a moneygrubber, a swearer, or an adulterer
and yet, he made it, so I guess you will be able to also?



RCM
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You are a commandment breaker. How do you expect to enter the kingdom of heaven or is keeping the commandments optional?
 
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