Incontrovertible Proof the Jesus Rose from the Grave

rossum said:
They were both present when Jesus' corpse revived? I think not. They saw an empty tomb, after the event. As I said, there are different explanations for an empty tomb.


Some are, Thucydides for example, most are not. Hearsay evidence can be used, but it is less reliable and more subject to bias. One of the skills of a historian is to evaluate the available evidence.


A witness can write in a newspaper, or be interviewed on television. A reporter can directly quote a witness. You should not try to put everything into one single category. The world has more difference than you seem to want it to.
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They both were there when Jesus met with the disciples.

Mark and Luke talked with people who saw Jesus after the resurection.

Just gotta love you desperate double standards.
 
glenlogie said:
They both were there when Jesus met with the disciples.

Mark and Luke talked with people who saw Jesus after the resurection.

Just gotta love you desperate double standards.
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you understand the Gospel’s are of anonymous authorship, right?

no?
 
Backup said:
Islam was invented to address the absurd aspects of Christianity and Judaism.
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Islam was invented when Mahomet saw the advantages of a religious system over pagan idol worship which was the Arabian system prior to his own. Unfortunately he neither understood nor credited Christianity nor Judaism, so he invented his own creed based on a synthesis of paganism, Christianity and Judaism.

Backup said:
Your God had to have his diapers changed. Weird.
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So ludicrous it make me think your god is the one that was kicked out of heaven to earth. In which case, earth will be your grave.
 
cjab said:
Islam was invented when Mahomet saw the advantages of a religious system over pagan idol worship which was the Arabian system prior to his own. Unfortunately he neither understood nor credited Christianity nor Judaism, so he invented his own creed based on a synthesis of paganism, Christianity and Judaism.


So ludicrous it make me think your god is the one that was kicked out of heaven to earth. In which case, earth will be your grave.
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I have no God.

I wouldn’t want one that had to have his diapers changed.
 
tbeachhead said:
I just wrote this in another thread in answer to Mike T, who claims that there is no evidence of the Resurrection.

In fact there is indeed incontrovertible evidence for the resurrection:

What do you know of the most recent studies of shroud of Turin and the Sudarium of Oviedo? If your knowledge dates from 1988 where Faucian "scientists" faked a Carbon 14 dating of a medieval border of the shroud and published a date from the Middle Ages, that has been proven an egregious fake. Most recent dating using 21st century technology dates the shroud to the first century.

In fact, what you actually have is photographic evidence of a Jew who was crucified in the first century being raised from the dead. A single artifact destroys your bluster, if you have a shred of interest and a willing and honest mind.

We have:
  1. The Shroud--made from quality 1st century linen and a 1st century weave.
  2. The pollen dates the shroud to the 1st century, and includes flora that has since gone extinct.
  3. The image on the shroud is of a crucified Jewish man, 5'11" tall, whose body was pummeled with a Roman flagellum, and whose had was crowned, not with a wreath of thorns, but with a full cap of thorns of a species identifiable and indigenous to Jerusalem and vicinity.
  4. The blood stains saturate the fabric, and the blood type is AB+, a very rare type, but for the Jews of Judea.
  5. The image is not pigment, but the effect of extremely intense UV light pulses that left an image of a person in motion, as he awakens. (There are multiple images of the coins on the eyes as the body moves.)
  6. The image is found ONLY on the surface of the linen in the topmost fibers. It could be scraped off with ease.
  7. On the image, the coins on the eyes, holding the cadaver's eyes closed, are 1st century "widow's mites" identifiable by any nusmismatist familiar with the coinage of Pontius Pilate's day.
  8. On the image, a phylactery is identifiable on his right arm.
  9. The person depicted is wearing a pendant with writing that is clearly written in 1st century Aramaic/Hebraic script. The actual inscription is being debated...
  10. The Sudarium of Oviedo is purported to be the head cloth of which John spoke in his eyewitness account of the first run to the tomb, that was found folded beside the "linen strips."
  11. The history of the Sudarium dates back to the seventh century, and the DNA provides the same traces back to Jerusalem.
  12. The Sudarium has been dated to the first century.
  13. The Sudarium is saturated with blood of the same type as that on the shroud.
  14. There is no image on the Sudarium, but the blood stains perfectly match the blood stains at the head of the shroud, though there is no evidence that the paths of the two cloths have ever crossed since the day Jesus rose from the dead.
If you have said there is no evidence, you are and have always been wrong. The evidence is there for anyone who cares about his own destiny, and the choice he has to make. Jesus, as it turns out, took the world's first selfie for your sake and for your enjoyment.
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I am highly skeptical of this, and of the claim Jesus was 5"11. He woukd have been a towering figure in that day.
 
glenlogie said:
Some do, some don't Pay attention to what i asked and do not try to change it.
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you only ask troll questions

Everyone on this forum should be aware of the scholarly understanding of the origins of the Gospels.

The educated Evangelicals would try to make a case for the traditional understanding of the authorship. You can’t, because you are so unfamiliar with the subject.
 
Backup said:
you only ask troll questions

Everyone on this forum should be aware of the scholarly understanding of the origins of the Gospels.

The educated Evangelicals would try to make a case for the traditional understanding of the authorship. You can’t, because you are so unfamiliar with the subject.
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So a "scholar" can never, ever be wrong? According to you.
 
glenlogie said:
They both were there when Jesus met with the disciples.
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Not a problem. Jesus had recovered from his coma and was walking around. You are assuming what you have to prove.

glenlogie said:
Mark and Luke talked with people who saw Jesus after the resurection.
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People saw Lazarus after he was cured. That doesn't make Lazarus God. People do recover from comas.

glenlogie said:
Just gotta love you desperate double standards.
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All I am doing is criticising the "incontrovertible" in the OP. There are other explanations for what happened. The story, as we have it, has some holes. I am pointing out the holes.
 
rossum said:
Not a problem. Jesus had recovered from his coma and was walking around. You are assuming what you have to prove.
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Who has recovered from a beating such as Jesus took? He's side was opened with a spear to the point he bleed completely out.........

Don't pretend you believe the clear narrative. You don't.

I personally believe you would have fainted and dead just thinking about experience it yourself. I have very little doubt you wouldn't recover.
 
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cjab said:
Islam was invented when Mahomet saw the advantages of a religious system over pagan idol worship which was the Arabian system prior to his own. Unfortunately he neither understood nor credited Christianity nor Judaism, so he invented his own creed based on a synthesis of paganism, Christianity and Judaism.


So ludicrous it make me think your god is the one that was kicked out of heaven to earth. In which case, earth will be your grave.
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Every single religious narrative in this world includes some principles that FIRST originated in the teachings of the faithful that embrace Jesus Christ. There is a reason the ancient Egyptians spoke of a "son" that died and arose from the grave. The Truth of Jesus Christ started before this world was ever formed.
 
rossum said:
Not a problem. Jesus had recovered from his coma and was walking around. You are assuming what you have to prove.


People saw Lazarus after he was cured. That doesn't make Lazarus God. People do recover from comas.


All I am doing is criticising the "incontrovertible" in the OP. There are other explanations for what happened. The story, as we have it, has some holes. I am pointing out the holes.
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People have been trying to use the coma explanation for years. So let me get this straight. You believe that a man who was severely injured on a cross did not die. The Roman soldiers, who killed people all the time, missed the fact that he was not dead and still breathing, was buried in a cave for several days without food or water, revied himself and got up and move a stone big enough to cover the cave opening, by himself. If tht were true you would have to admit that Jesus had superhuman powers.
 
Backup said:
you only ask troll questions

Everyone on this forum should be aware of the scholarly understanding of the origins of the Gospels.

The educated Evangelicals would try to make a case for the traditional understanding of the authorship. You can’t, because you are so unfamiliar with the subject.
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Lookie at who is pretending to know my background.
 
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