Incontrovertible Proof the Jesus Rose from the Grave

rossum said:
Not a problem. Jesus had recovered from his coma and was walking around. You are assuming what you have to prove.


People saw Lazarus after he was cured. That doesn't make Lazarus God. People do recover from comas.


All I am doing is criticising the "incontrovertible" in the OP. There are other explanations for what happened. The story, as we have it, has some holes. I am pointing out the holes.
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Another flaw in your theory, why didn’t the authorities recapture and crucify him again?
 
glenlogie said:
You believe that a man who was severely injured on a cross did not die.
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We know from Josephus that a man who was severely injured on a cross and was taken down early did not die. Jesus was taken down early due to the Sabbath.

glenlogie said:
The Roman soldiers, who killed people all the time, missed the fact that he was not dead and still breathing
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They were not trained or equipped to detect someone in a deep coma. Also, when the Decurion tells you to take those three guys down, you get on with taking those three guys down, and don't talk back to the Decurion. Any delay and the Decurion will be pissed.

glenlogie said:
move a stone big enough to cover the cave opening, by himself.
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You have the measurements of the opening? You have the weight of the stone? You have references for both?

The OP is claiming "incontrovertible proof"; so you need that evidence to be incontrovertible.
 
rossum said:
No. If He "bled completely out" then there would not be any blood on the Shroud of Turin, as stated in the OP. The evidence in this thread contradicts your claim.
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Seriously? I have never considered the Shroud of Turin proof of anything. However, wounds can "leak" long after death.

You need to study a little more.....
 
rossum said:
We know from Josephus that a man who was severely injured on a cross and was taken down early did not die. Jesus was taken down early due to the Sabbath.


They were not trained or equipped to detect someone in a deep coma. Also, when the Decurion tells you to take those three guys down, you get on with taking those three guys down, and don't talk back to the Decurion. Any delay and the Decurion will be pissed.


You have the measurements of the opening? You have the weight of the stone? You have references for both?

The OP is claiming "incontrovertible proof"; so you need that evidence to be incontrovertible.
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Whoop-de-do. You take one isolated incident and project it to be a percentage of all crucifixions. You are reaching.

And the Decurion was careless??

It was big enough for people to carry a body inside and for others to come inside afterwards, so it was more than a gopher hole.

How much weight could you move if you move if you had been crucified and deprived of water and food for mutiple days. Do tell.
 
mikeT said:
Not if the deceased had "bled completely out", as was claimed.
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Blood can remain in veins inside the body and not coagulate. Once a body is moved, that action can compress the veins in the body and force blood out even though the heart has stopped. This rather common. Check out post mortem examination results often used in forensic analysis.
 
glenlogie said:
You take one isolated incident and project it to be a percentage of all crucifixions. You are reaching.
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You are also taking "one isolated incident", or was Jesus crucified multiple times? Josephus shows survival is possible after being taken down early, as Jesus was.

glenlogie said:
Becuase he was sentenced to death, duh. And as you say the rulers would have been pissed if he wasn't dead.
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And according to you, Jesus was walking around alive after three days. Why didn't the Romans arrest Him again and crucify Him again?
 
rossum said:
You are also taking "one isolated incident", or was Jesus crucified multiple times? Josephus shows survival is possible after being taken down early, as Jesus was.


And according to you, Jesus was walking around alive after three days. Why didn't the Romans arrest Him again and crucify Him again?
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What is bugging you about the idea of Jesus’ resurrection. You are acting like it is a personal insult to you.
 
glenlogie said:
There are no contradictions, Just various accounts
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"I saw a red car being driven by a Caucasian man."
"I saw a dark red Mercedes C-Class."

Various accounts.

"I saw a red car being driven by a Caucasian man."
"I saw a black car being driven by an Asian woman."

Contradictory accounts.

The latter is what we get from the Bible.
 
glenlogie said:
What is bugging you about the idea of Jesus’ resurrection. You are acting like it is a personal insult to you.
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The words "incontrovertible proof" in the thread title are bugging me, particularly the use of the Shroud and the Sudarium to provide such "proof". The story, and the two relics, are certainly controvertible.

It is not the resurrection itself, gods can do thing like that. It is the excessive claims for historical support and exaggerated claims for the Bible as a historical, as opposed to a religious, document. That is what bugs me.
 
rossum said:
The words "incontrovertible proof" in the thread title are bugging me, particularly the use of the Shroud and the Sudarium to provide such "proof". The story, and the two relics, are certainly controvertible.

It is not the resurrection itself, gods can do thing like that. It is the excessive claims for historical support and exaggerated claims for the Bible as a historical, as opposed to a religious, document. That is what bugs me.
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So none of the events that are described actually happened?
 
glenlogie said:
So none of the events described in the whole of the Bible actually happened??
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Some did, some didn't.

The sun never stood still in the sky. There was no global flood. The dead did not walk the streets of Jerusalem.

The Assyrians did invade Israel, capture many towns, but fail to capture Jerusalem. Herod was a Roman client king. There was a big battle at Megiddo between the Egyptians and the Canaanites.
 
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