Why we have the perception we do

JohnDeVitoOfOld said:
A srawman is not recounting something I was told. You aren't fighting me. You are fighting your fellow catholics at this point.
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Yeah, a Catholic strawman.

Just becasue A Catholic tells you something, you believe it?

I talk to many Protestants who can't tell me what Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura are. Does this entail there is a problem with Sola Scriptura or Sola Fide? Once I had a Lutheran pastor ask me to explain to him why he should be Catholic--but told me--don't tell me why Sola Scriptura isn't biblical. I don't care about that. So--here is a Lutheran pastor----whose whole religion is founded on Sola Scriptura---who doesn't care whether Sola Scriptura is biblical. I was so shocked by that statement, I didn't know what to say. I wish I had said "If you don't care about biblical truth, you might as well stay Lutheran."

Sure there are Catholics who are content to just accept the Faith of the Church without having to confirm it or read the Scriptures. That does not entail the Church does not encourage Scripture study, or expects Catholics to have blind Faith.
 
romishpopishorganist said:
Yeah, a Catholic strawman.

Just becasue A Catholic tells you something, you believe it?

I talk to many Protestants who can't tell me what Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura are. Does this entail there is a problem with Sola Scriptura or Sola Fide? Once I had a Lutheran pastor ask me to explain to him why he should be Catholic--but told me--don't tell me why Sola Scriptura isn't biblical. I don't care about that. So--here is a Lutheran pastor----whose whole religion is founded on Sola Scriptura---who doesn't care whether Sola Scriptura is biblical. I was so shocked by that statement, I didn't know what to say. I wish I had said "If you don't care about biblical truth, you might as well stay Lutheran."

Sure there are Catholics who are content to just accept the Faith of the Church without having to confirm it or read the Scriptures. That does not entail the Church does not encourage Scripture study, or expects Catholics to have blind Faith.
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I talked to a Ncc once and he had no idea of the history of Christianity from the beginning until this present time? ECF's? No idea. A schism in the 11th century? Nope, he knew nothing about that either. He was only told what Pastor Bob told him and that was that, and it seems to me that Pastor Bob has failed that man immensely.
 
1Thess521 said:
it is NOT an official IMPLICIT teaching of the Catholic Church.
However it was the standard practice/policy for centuries
all quoted from Catholic sources:
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Not all are official Catholic sources, such as the kind that Catholics here are allowed to link to in their posts. In fact the only one that was official was the one from the USCCB, so that is the only one I find relevant.

1Thess521 said:
From the USCCB www.usccb.org/offices/new-american-bible/changes-catholic-attitudes-toward-bible-readings
The USCCB's claim.
Up until the mid-twentieth Century, the custom of reading the Bible and interpreting it for oneself was a hallmark of the Protestant churches springing up in Europe after the Reformation. Protestants rejected the authority of the Pope and of the Church and showed it by saying people could read and interpret the Bible for themselves.
Catholics meanwhile were discouraged from reading Scripture.
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Note the past tense "were" discouraged. This practice was recognized as a problem by the Vatican II council, more than half a century ago.
 
romishpopishorganist said:
Yeah, a Catholic strawman.

Just becasue A Catholic tells you something, you believe it?
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Just as is done with discrediting scripture, you just discredited your fellow catholics.

romishpopishorganist said:
I talk to many Protestants who can't tell me what Sola Fide and Sola Scriptura are. Does this entail there is a problem with Sola Scriptura or Sola Fide? Once I had a Lutheran pastor ask me to explain to him why he should be Catholic--but told me--don't tell me why Sola Scriptura isn't biblical. I don't care about that. So--here is a Lutheran pastor----whose whole religion is founded on Sola Scriptura---who doesn't care whether Sola Scriptura is biblical. I was so shocked by that statement, I didn't know what to say. I wish I had said "If you don't care about biblical truth, you might as well stay Lutheran."
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Were I to see a prot having issue with something I would wrestle throiugh it with scripture, just as I do with catholics.

romishpopishorganist said:
Sure there are Catholics who are content to just accept the Faith of the Church without having to confirm it or read the Scriptures. That does not entail the Church does not encourage Scripture study, or expects Catholics to have blind Faith.
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The former would be lazy faith, would it not?
 
LifeIn said:
Not all are official Catholic sources, such as the kind that Catholics here are allowed to link to in their posts. In fact the only one that was official was the one from the USCCB, so that is the only one I find relevant.
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???? so I guess there is no priestly sexual misconduct and cover-ups because it is not an official teaching.
WAKE UP
There are dozens of pro-Catholic websites claiming the same thing:
That the "behind the scenes" Catholic Church does NOT encourage Bible reading
 
Watchdog said:
We also have a homily. I like to have my own missel, and in it before each of the two readings and the gospel there is a commentary as well.
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Back in the day I was quite the catholic. Daily mass, volunteered in the rectory, hung out with the priests.

Started reading Scripture. Once asked the monsignor how what he said in the homily fit with the gospel reading, because he was saying the opposite of what Jesus said. I honestly wanted to understand.

That was when I got yelled at. About the bible being a dangerous book and all, how I shouldn't read it. So that is not something I make up. A trained monsignor, not like some nut in the parking lot.

So I am not really impressed by a "homily". And, believe me, I watch my own pastor's sermons like a hawk. Difference is, when I have brought up concernes I've never been yelled at. I can handle that, but it shows how open one is to the examination of Scripture over having just some authority complex.

And by the way. It's "missal", not "missel". It's surely an innocent typo, but just letting you know, I had those too.

I sometimes think catholics are under the impression that they are dealing with the uninitiated and clueless here. You aren't.
 
1Thess521 said:
???? so I guess there is no priestly sexual misconduct and cover-ups because it is not an official teaching.
WAKE UP
There are dozens of pro-Catholic websites claiming the same thing:
That the "behind the scenes" Catholic Church does NOT encourage Bible reading
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That's the trouble today with people who do not know how to vet their sources, thinking that "I saw it on the Internet. There must be truth to it". I can tell you from personal experience of being a Catholic for 75 years, I have never once be discouraged from reading Scripture. That includes attending over 20 different Catholic Churches in 4 different states.
 
JohnDeVitoOfOld said:
And, believe me, I watch my own pastor's sermons like a hawk. Difference is, when I have brought up concernes I've never been yelled at.
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Sad to see that happened. Every week one of our priests holds a get together where anyone's questions are answered with respect. Now, what would happen should you and your Pastor arrive at an impasse and he determines you are wrong, and he won't budge, would you be out looking for another church?
JohnDeVitoOfOld said:
And by the way. It's "missal", not "missel". It's surely an innocent typo, but just letting you know, I had those too.
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Typo.
JohnDeVitoOfOld said:
I sometimes think catholics are under the impression that they are dealing with the uninitiated and clueless here.
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Not to me. It seems the Ncc's who post here are up on their heartfelt beliefs and we know exactly who we are dealing with.
 
Watchdog said:
Sad to see that happened. Every week one of our priests holds a get together where anyone's questions are answered with respect. Now, what would happen should you and your Pastor arrive at an impasse and he determines you are wrong, and he won't budge, would you be out looking for another church?

Typo.

Not to me. It seems the Ncc's who post here are up on their heartfelt beliefs and we know exactly who we are dealing with.
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Sad to see that happened. Every week one of our priests holds a get together where anyone's questions are answered with respect. Now, what would happen should you and your Pastor arrive at an impasse and he determines you are wrong, and he won't budge, would you be out looking for another church?
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It would be easy for you to arrive at an impasse with any of your priests, if you asked the right questions. But you never will because youre docile. Just like they want you to be. You could raise questions about the late arriving dogmas, why none of them are in the bible? You could ask to be shown a ministerial priesthood, or the papacy or papal infallibility. He will never be able to show you since none of it is there. If you stuck to your guns and said scripture was your highest authority, i bet you'd be out on your ear. I'll bet most catholics don't believe half of what they are told. And don't have a clue about things they aren't told, i.e. mary bosses God. Mary is omnipotent, they are eating (allegedly) the flesh of the risen christ. And on and on and on.
 
Watchdog said:
We all get the scriptures at Mass every week.
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That must be why you folks barely know any Scripture and constantly have to ask where a verse is because it is unfamiliar to you.

Almost all Catholics I know IRL are biblically illiterate.....even with all their "scriptures at Mass" you boast about.
 
LifeIn said:
That's the trouble today with people who do not know how to vet their sources, thinking that "I saw it on the Internet. There must be truth to it". I can tell you from personal experience of being a Catholic for 75 years, I have never once be discouraged from reading Scripture. That includes attending over 20 different Catholic Churches in 4 different states.
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oh please
Ewtn
Catholic.com
ncregister
 
Watchdog said:
Now, what would happen should you and your Pastor arrive at an impasse and he determines you are wrong, and he won't budge, would you be out looking for another church?
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I already know what Catholics do: they go to the parish across town where the priest agrees with them.

Catholics invented church hopping.
 
Watchdog said:
Sad to see that happened. Every week one of our priests holds a get together where anyone's questions are answered with respect. Now, what would happen should you and your Pastor arrive at an impasse and he determines you are wrong, and he won't budge, would you be out looking for another church?
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As we have been told all the Churches in the 1st century were Catholic :
How long would you stay at these Catholic Churches?
  • Ephesus: The church that had abandoned its first love for Christ (Revelation 2:4).
  • Pergamum: The church that needed to repent of sin (Revelation 2:16).
  • Thyatira: The church whose false prophetess was leading people astray (Revelation 2:20).
  • Sardis: The sleeping church that needed to wake up (Revelation 3:2).
  • Laodicea: The church with lukewarm faith (Revelation 3:16).
 
1Thess521 said:
oh please
Ewtn
Catholic.com
ncregister
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All three are considered unofficial by the rules of this forum and I am not even allowed to link to them. But you can.

But let's look at some of those references anyway:

1Thess521 said:
from the pro-Catholic website: https://crisismagazine.com/opinion/why-catholics-dont-read-the-bible
"Bible-reading took on the color of being a distinctively Protestant thing, therefore something faithful Catholics should avoid. Protestants, after all, appealed to the authority of the Bible to challenge the authority of the pope and the bishops, and when they read the Bible they came to certain theological conclusions that conflicted with Catholic doctrine. Reading the Bible was dangerous for Catholics."
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Talking about history, not present policy.

1Thess521 said:
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//www.ncregister.com/blog/why-are-catholics-so-deficient-in-bible-reading
"Catholics don't read the Bible anywhere near as much as evangelical Protestants do, and that is to our shame.
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Acknowledges a problem and I agree. Note: it still does not say this is the result of current policy.


1Thess521 said:
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//www.ncronline.org/news/parish/hidden-exodus-catholics-becoming-protestants
“That Catholics are leaving to join evangelical churches because of the church teaching on the Bible is a disgrace. Too few homilists explain the scriptures to their people. Few Catholics read the Bible.
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Some editorial writers opinion. I don't agree with him.

1Thess521 said:
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//www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/toward-biblical-literacy-9802
Q: Is one of the goals of this program to promote "biblical literacy" among Catholics, who have often been characterized as being "illiterate" when it comes to Scripture?
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Again, acknowledgement of a problem, not a current policy.

1Thess521 said:
crisismagazine.com

Why Catholics Don’t Read the Bible

A few years ago I wrote a book that was very pessimistic about the future of the Church in the United States. American Catholicism is a religion, I argued, in a state of probably irreversible decline.
crisismagazine.com crisismagazine.com
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Crisis magazine is the worst, with a strong right-wing political bias and only medium credibility in their reporting. I would call them more of a political action committee than a Catholic media outlet.
 
Watchdog said:
Sad to see that happened. Every week one of our priests holds a get together where anyone's questions are answered with respect. Now, what would happen should you and your Pastor arrive at an impasse and he determines you are wrong, and he won't budge, would you be out looking for another church?

Typo.

Not to me. It seems the Ncc's who post here are up on their heartfelt beliefs and we know exactly who we are dealing with.
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I know it was a typo. More to show that I have a clue than anything else 😄

My pastor and I have been in disagreement. I have not looked for another church. There are things that would cause me to, but we haven't gottent to the point where he is promoting rank heresy. If we got there, I'd be gone like water off a duck's back.
 
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