What I went through because of Christianity.

[balshan]

I'm not RC. And I don't think you really care what the facts are.

Interesting, you certainly know how to play their games. It is you who has problems with facts.

 

[Gary Mac]

I'd recommend you investigate his case before you believe him. If he was really cured of diabetes, then we can use that cure to save many other people. If his story is a fabrication, then you would be a fool to believe him.

One would have to take the same spiritual medicine to find out the truth wouldn't they? who is willing, you?

 

[Gary Mac]

Interesting, you certainly know how to play their games. It is you who has problems with facts.

SO did Jesus have problems with the facts to the same as yourself, and look how those treated him!

 

[Gary Mac]

Actually, the Bible doesn’t promise the answers you want.

“Ye ask, and receive not, because ye ask amiss, that ye may consume itupon your lusts.”
James 4:3

“And this is the confidence that we have in him, that, if we ask any thing according to his will, he heareth us: And if we know that he hear us, whatsoever we ask, we know that we have the petitions that we desired of him.”
1 John 5:14-15

“Thy kingdom come, Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.”
Matthew 6:10

And that kingdom comes the same way it came to Jesus in Matt 3:16. He was very clear in Luke 17:20-21 how it comes. It does not come without observation, it is within you. Or is supposed to be.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

One would have to take the same spiritual medicine to find out the truth wouldn't they? who is willing, you?

No. Investigating miracle claims involves tracking down those who claim the miracles to see if there's any truth to their stories. I guarantee that no miracles will be proved.

 

[balshan]

SO did Jesus have problems with the facts to the same as yourself, and look how those treated him!

What facts are you talking about?

 

[TrvmpleVnSnvkes]

I generally don't get into lengthy arguments with Christians about what they think Bible passages mean. Just let me say that to downplay Paul's belief about "wonders" and prayer is absurd. Whatever else might be said about Paul, he was a man of prayer.

That's what we read.

John of Patmos also saw Jesus post ascension, or so we read in Revelation.

Actually, I ended up telling the Pentecostals more about the Bible than what they told me. I studied it intensely at that time and often informed them about the Bible's contents facts that they didn't know.

Anyway, what's wrong with the Pentecostals? You Christians sure love to fight with each other.

We all have an opinion!

I don't really have moral standards but prefer to use reason and facts to arrive at what I should do. I also try to take the views of others into consideration regarding moral decisions.

Why be so suspicious and paranoid about people? What they do in private can be good. I make sure to do good no matter where I am. I recommend it.

As far as I can tell I understand the Bible as well as most believers do. If you'd like to display your supernatural discernment, though, then please inform us of the name of Joseph's father--the Joseph who was Mary's husband.

That's not correct. When Paul asserted that "all have sinned," he wasn't thinking about infants and those born cognitively impaired.

I don't see how Christians are more righteous than others.

That's true. I cannot and do not see any results to your prayers.

You insulted me calling me "bitter." I'm not bitter at all. I just tell people the truth, and for them the truth is bitter.

I didn't distort anything.

I didn't slander anybody. Everything I posted is true to the best of my knowledge.

It's really not a matter of how Christians treat me now because I now know better than to trust what they claim. What I'm out to do is prevent Christians from harming others.

True, but what's your point? If you apply some logic, you'd conclude that prayer doesn't put an end to all that suffering.

This is really weird: Why attend a forum where you can't take disagreement? I'd advise you to do your homework about some of the issues I've raised and at least attempt a well-argued, reasoned response to my criticisms. Who knows? You might become a decent debater and be able to substantiate at least some of your beliefs.

So in other words, when you get caught twisting scripture out of context to fit your own narrative, rather than just admit it you just double down on falsehood lol. What John describes in revelation is prophetic visions..Paul actually saw Jesus in person after His burial.

Studying immensely does not equate to understanding, btw. Especially when it comes to scriptural/spiritual matters. You demonstrate that in your posts.

What’s wrong with pentecostalists? Your thread here is actually an answer to your own question. You are only one of many millions who share a very similar story. This is because their hocus pocus doctrine is based on staunch misinterpretation of the Word, and I won’t even get into all the other things wrong with that religion here. There’s entire libraries of information on what is wrong.

Why be suspicious of people? Why not? It has served me well. I don’t get conned like you did by pentecostalists. Besides, the scriptures say let only God be true, and every man a liar.

No, clearly you don’t understand the Bible too well. I’ve already pointed out multiple passages you’ve used out of context .

And like Paul, I am not talking to infants either. Also, if you want to be real about it, everyone is cognitively impaired in a way. This sort of excuse you make is used by lawyers to try and justify what violent criminals do. If someone broke into one of your loved one’s homes at midnight, did savage, unspeakable violent crimes to them, you good with them getting away with it because of ‘cognitive impairment’? Released, set free to do it again?

You don’t seem to get that true Christians are willing to admit they are not righteous, the righteousness of Christ must be imputed. You’re right, you don’t see.

I only called you bitter in the post after your false accusation of insulting you though. Sorry if you take the truth as an ‘insult’ but it’s all in your writings and your tone, and I am not the only one here who mentioned that. You’ve been very smug, and condescending to people here. Don’t like what you reap, sow better. Thought you were a devout Bible student?

You did distort, several things..scriptures, what I said earlier, your thread title is a distortion..so much for being this ‘good’ person you portray yourself as, which is also yet another distortion. And you did slander, so apparently, the best of your knowledge isn’t quite cutting it.

Now you know better than to trust what Christians claim? Wait, what were you saying about being suspicious and paranoid? LOL..you fell in with pentecostalists who preached a false doctrine of health and prosperity. Therefore you’re distorting again by claiming Christians are harming others. False manmade doctrine created by scripture twist/denominational bias harms others. Way to generalize.

Where did I ever claim that prayer ends all suffering? I didn’t. Where did Christ claim that? He didn’t. Paul had ailments himself he suffered from and prayed multiple times for relief and it wasn’t given as mentioned in Corinthians. Sometimes suffering has a purpose, such as to keep one humble, it worked in Paul’s case. Others though, tends to have the exact opposite effect.

You’re distorting yet again LOL..I actually expect disagreement. You’re the one who can’t take disagreement. That’s why in your op you tell Christians to keep their beliefs to themselves. You can’t take differing views. Like when you get called out for your scripture twisting...you can’t own up to it and just double down by introducing more falsehood as I pointed out earlier.

Only homework assignment I have is to study the Word. So no thanks. I believe I am done here in this thread. Go do your own homework..and have a look in the mirror, that’s where all your issues stem from. Would certainly be more productive than to waste your life away blaming others for your problems, trolling for people to take your frustration out on, and being so bitter. Whatever ye sow, that ye shall also reap.

 

[Gary Mac]

What facts are you talking about?

Translations are subject to the translator. If one translator believes it says this then another says no that is wrong it says this, then the next one says you both are wrong it says this.

Im not speaking for OLG but to me it is obvious these are the facts OLG was trying to get over to you for you to see.

These interpretations are common among religious minds. One church says this is the truth, the church across the street says no that is false this is the truth, the church on the next corner says you both are wrong, this is the truth.

How can one know the truth? Only by God Himself interpret it for you by the Spirit He is. Even Jesus had to learn that fact from God Himself in Matt 3:16, for before that Jesus was of one of these beliefs of the Jewish denomination and was Rabbi in it even from a young age, but God opened up His truths in that man and all of a sudden he was a false prophet, blasphemer, to the very ones he once taught their belief system.

This is the ways of modern christianity, they all only has a belief for what it says instead of being what it says that you should be in Gods same image and walk as He walks in it. As I stated, Even Jesus learned that lesson in Matt 3;16. Read it. Did not God open up who He is and all of His heaven in that man? Isn't that plainly what it states? But I would assume that you will read into it your own interpretations? Correct me if Im wrong!

That was not a belief for Jesus, that was the reality for truths that only God can give. And that is noting new, it started in Adam He was the first to recieve from God His knowledge and become like Him to know this difference between guesswork in carnality and the reality in spirituality, Gen 3;22. read it.

Abraham recieived that same truth, Moses received that same truth, Mary received that same truth, 120 in an upper room received that same truth -- How? read it, by God Himself giving them His truth and bypass mans beliefs for a god, for anyone can believe anything about a god, anyone can have their own interpretations for scripture.

One can learn it in Hebrew Greek and Latin, memorize it, quote it, but it is another matter when God Himself reveals in you who He is and opens up who He is and all of His heaven in you. After Jesus enlightenment by God Himself, he coined that event for a renewing of the mind as born again and ye must be -- by the same.

 

[Our Lord's God]

These interpretations are common among religious minds. One church says this is the truth, the church across the street says no that is false this is the truth, the church on the next corner says you both are wrong, this is the truth.

How can one know the truth? Only by God Himself interpret it for you by the Spirit He is.

This is the part they do not comprehend. They will think God gives His Spirit for the purpose of interpreting their Bible rightly. And once they have that thought in their head, they are off lost in never, never land.

Even Jesus had to learn that fact from God Himself in Matt 3:16, for before that Jesus was of one of these beliefs of the Jewish denomination and was Rabbi in it even from a young age, but God opened up His truths in that man and all of a sudden he was a false prophet, blasphemer, to the very ones he once taught their belief system.

Though true, it is incomprehensible to them.

Abraham recieived that same truth, Moses received that same truth, Mary received that same truth, 120 in an upper room received that same truth -- How? read it, by God Himself giving them His truth and bypass mans beliefs for a god, for anyone can believe anything about a god, anyone can have their own interpretations for scripture.

One can learn it in Hebrew Greek and Latin, memorize it, quote it, but it is another matter when God Himself reveals in you who He is and opens up who He is and all of His heaven in you. After Jesus enlightenment by God Himself, he coined that event for a renewing of the mind as born again and ye must be -- by the same.

 

[Gary Mac]

This is the part they do not comprehend. They will think God gives His Spirit for the purpose of interpreting their Bible rightly. And once they have that thought in their head, they are off lost in never, never land.

And they didnt lean it from GHod Himself they learned it from others opinions that only sounds good to them.

Though true, it is incomprehensible to them.

They cant hear nor see it at all.

I dont know where that OLG came from in my post LOL.

 

[eve]

I was badly injured in an accident in 1977 when I was fifteen years old. About ten years later I got involved with some Pentecostal Christians who told me that God could heal my injuries and restore me to fitness. I believed them, and I read the Bible believing what it says about God, Christ, faith, prayer, and everything else. The promised miracles of healing and restoration never arrived. And the money I sent out to preachers like Oral Roberts never came back. If all that wasn't bad enough, I was ridiculed by both believers and unbelievers alike for believing what the preachers and the Bible says. About a year or two later I attempted suicide.

So whether you realize it or not you are hurting people when you espouse what the Bible says. You are hurting them badly, and some of those people die.

So what I would recommend to avoid these kinds of tragedies is keep your Christian beliefs to yourselves. Or if you do discuss those beliefs, then explain that they are your own personal beliefs that you cannot assure are good or true.

In other words, tell the truth.

the general modern belief is the sealed vision and corrupt scroll (by adam)

 

[Gary Mac]

the general modern belief is the sealed vision and corrupt scroll (by adam)

Actually Adam was kicked out of Eden and its pews for laws of doe's and don'ts, and the law became who he was supposed to be, Like God to know this difference. Gen 3:22 and live it instead of trying to follow those laws in which one will fail every time trying to do it yourself.

Even Jesus learned that same information in Matt 3:16 when he was kicked out of the Jewish laws and God opend in him who He is by the Spirit God is and all of His heaven in that man, just as He does in us all who will receive Him as Adam did and Jesus did, Abraham did, Moses did, 120 did.

After God opened who He is and His heaven in Jesus, with that renewing of Jesus mind he coined the phrase -- ye must be born again with that same renewing of mind that he recieved and all of them before him who received from God His same disposition of mind, Spirit.

If you are different from the same then you are on your own.

 

[Runningman]

I was badly injured in an accident in 1977 when I was fifteen years old. About ten years later I got involved with some Pentecostal Christians who told me that God could heal my injuries and restore me to fitness. I believed them, and I read the Bible believing what it says about God, Christ, faith, prayer, and everything else. The promised miracles of healing and restoration never arrived. And the money I sent out to preachers like Oral Roberts never came back. If all that wasn't bad enough, I was ridiculed by both believers and unbelievers alike for believing what the preachers and the Bible says. About a year or two later I attempted suicide.

So whether you realize it or not you are hurting people when you espouse what the Bible says. You are hurting them badly, and some of those people die.

So what I would recommend to avoid these kinds of tragedies is keep your Christian beliefs to yourselves. Or if you do discuss those beliefs, then explain that they are your own personal beliefs that you cannot assure are good or true.

In other words, tell the truth.

Christians often misunderstand that just because God can heal someone and there are examples in the Bibles and the physical world of this that it automatically means He wants to or is willing to. In my experience, God is actually picky about what kinds of prayers He will answer. Sometimes it depends on what one's disposition toward Him is in the request. Sometimes it may depend on how sincerely you want it and how long you're willing to ask. God may be moved to act by sincere and broken people calling out to Him. God also detects ulterior motives.

God also already has a system in place for people to be healed and sometimes the answer is waiting for your body to react, physical therapy, or a doctor. Does God expect us to work for what we want? Absolutely. God does expect us to work. God is not going to provide every single last iota like a bell boy at our beck and call. There is already a world available for us wherein there is food, clothing, shelter, and other people to interact with. We have already been provided everything so we have to go get it.

This is also a physical and metaphysical universe where there is an equal and opposite reaction for everything including the things we physically do, the things we imagine, the things we feel, the things we say, the food we eat, every breath we take has a consequence. Judgement is instant, karma is instant, reaping what we sow is instant. God will not compromise this world and the laws that govern it for us even if we are suffering sometimes in the process.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Christians often misunderstand that just because God can heal someone and there are examples in the Bibles and the physical world of this...

I've never seen or heard of one verified example of a miraculous healing. I'm only acquainted with miracle stories and testimonies. You should take care not to offer desperate people false hope.

...that it automatically means He wants to or is willing to.

If God exists, then he refuses to save people from suffering although it's possible that he's not able to put an end to suffering.

In my experience, God is actually picky about what kinds of prayers He will answer. Sometimes it depends on what one's disposition toward Him is in the request. Sometimes it may depend on how sincerely you want it and how long you're willing to ask. God may be moved to act by sincere and broken people calling out to Him. God also detects ulterior motives.

You neglected to consider the possibility that prayer simply doesn't work. About the only difference it makes is to worsen already bad situations as people waste time praying rather than working to solve the problem.

God is not going to provide every single last iota like a bell boy at our beck and call.

But the whole business about God as that "bellboy" or that "genii" comes from the Bible where answers to prayer requests are offered. In the Lord's Prayer, for example, we are told to ask for "our daily bread" and to ask God to "deliver us from evil." Whatever happened to all that? I think you're backpedaling on that promise.

There is already a world available for us wherein there is food, clothing, shelter, and other people to interact with. We have already been provided everything so we have to go get it.

Then why bother with prayer?

This is also a physical and metaphysical universe where there is an equal and opposite reaction for everything including the things we physically do, the things we imagine, the things we feel, the things we say, the food we eat, every breath we take has a consequence. Judgement is instant, karma is instant, reaping what we sow is instant. God will not compromise this world and the laws that govern it for us even if we are suffering sometimes in the process.

Then why bother with prayer?

 

[Runningman]

I've never seen or heard of one verified example of a miraculous healing. I'm only acquainted with miracle stories and testimonies. You should take care not to offer desperate people false hope.

If God exists, then he refuses to save people from suffering although it's possible that he's not able to put an end to suffering.

You neglected to consider the possibility that prayer simply doesn't work. About the only difference it makes is to worsen already bad situations as people waste time praying rather than working to solve the problem.

But the whole business about God as that "bellboy" or that "genii" comes from the Bible where answers to prayer requests are offered. In the Lord's Prayer, for example, we are told to ask for "our daily bread" and to ask God to "deliver us from evil." Whatever happened to all that? I think you're backpedaling on that promise.

Then why bother with prayer?

Then why bother with prayer?

People have their experiences and testimonies, but I understand they are not your experiences so they just end up sounding like stories. If one doesn't want to bother with prayer then they don't have to. God probably won't stop them or intervene. If you aren't a Christian I don't think God is really expecting you to be in contact with Him anyway, though I think He would like you to reach out when/if you're ready (again).

 

[eve]

I was badly injured in an accident in 1977 when I was fifteen years old. About ten years later I got involved with some Pentecostal Christians who told me that God could heal my injuries and restore me to fitness. I believed them, and I read the Bible believing what it says about God, Christ, faith, prayer, and everything else. The promised miracles of healing and restoration never arrived. And the money I sent out to preachers like Oral Roberts never came back. If all that wasn't bad enough, I was ridiculed by both believers and unbelievers alike for believing what the preachers and the Bible says. About a year or two later I attempted suicide.

So whether you realize it or not you are hurting people when you espouse what the Bible says. You are hurting them badly, and some of those people die.

So what I would recommend to avoid these kinds of tragedies is keep your Christian beliefs to yourselves. Or if you do discuss those beliefs, then explain that they are your own personal beliefs that you cannot assure are good or true.

In other words, tell the truth.

Please tell me, did you recover from your injuries?

I hope you are okay.

 

[eve]

I've never seen or heard of one verified example of a miraculous healing. I'm only acquainted with miracle stories and testimonies. You should take care not to offer desperate people false hope.

If God exists, then he refuses to save people from suffering although it's possible that he's not able to put an end to suffering.

You neglected to consider the possibility that prayer simply doesn't work. About the only difference it makes is to worsen already bad situations as people waste time praying rather than working to solve the problem.

But the whole business about God as that "bellboy" or that "genii" comes from the Bible where answers to prayer requests are offered. In the Lord's Prayer, for example, we are told to ask for "our daily bread" and to ask God to "deliver us from evil." Whatever happened to all that? I think you're backpedaling on that promise.

Then why bother with prayer?

Then why bother with prayer?

God is not the one ruling this earth... thats the prince of the air...

but soon all of us are going home and you will see how sweet and lovely is our God.

and you are right. that bellboy genii concept is horrible.

 

[Unknown Soldier]

Please tell me, did you recover from your injuries?

I hope you are okay.

Suffice it to say, all the prayers for my healing failed. I don't see how people can believe in prayer when it fails so utterly.

God is not the one ruling this earth... thats the prince of the air...

but soon all of us are going home and you will see how sweet and lovely is our God.

What makes you so sure when the world we live in is so devoid of any God(s) or miracles?

and you are right. that bellboy genii concept is horrible.

My point there is that Christians often end up mocking desperate people whose prayers have failed to save them. Some Christians will tell them: "God isn't a genii in a bottle who will grant your every wish. Ha, ha, ha." I hope you can see how cruel that is especially when the people praying for recovery might be very ill or dying.

 

[eve]

Suffice it to say, all the prayers for my healing failed. I don't see how people can believe in prayer when it fails so utterly.

What makes you so sure when the world we live in is so devoid of any God(s) or miracles?

My point there is that Christians often end up mocking desperate people whose prayers have failed to save them. Some Christians will tell them: "God isn't a genii in a bottle who will grant your every wish. Ha, ha, ha." I hope you can see how cruel that is especially when the people praying for recovery might be very ill or dying.

this earth, this world is not what God declared good before the fall but a corruption resulting after the fall

this world is ruled by the prince of the air
...Christ said I am not from here...

It is a world of suffering and pain and trials resulting from the fall
and you are right it is devoid of God


prophets tell how God will destroy it...
though many won't accept that, this is what it says


our healing will be to
to meet Christ on the clouds
and receive our imperishable body made by God
...and this flesh body to cease....
and to return to Him
and to go
Home
... His new creation, the restoration of His original paradise for us
which He declared Good
and in which there is no pain and suffering

there can be no peace here..
this is the place God warned adam of
called Death

and indeed everything here dies.
there is pain and toil and loneliness here
and no one cares

 

[eve]

Suffice it to say, all the prayers for my healing failed. I don't see how people can believe in prayer when it fails so utterly.

What makes you so sure when the world we live in is so devoid of any God(s) or miracles?

My point there is that Christians often end up mocking desperate people whose prayers have failed to save them. Some Christians will tell them: "God isn't a genii in a bottle who will grant your every wish. Ha, ha, ha." I hope you can see how cruel that is especially when the people praying for recovery might be very ill or dying.

many in modern christianity do promote that bellboy version : (
and then also switch to the opposite.

any healing has to be in your soul
which would be to understand His words to you
and hear Him