How do athiests know if something is true or not?

[GeneZ]

Nope, but it is GOOD ADVICE to to bother trying with some folks, who won't hear the truth when it's spoken. It's all going to be "Foolishness" to you anyway. (1 Cor 1:18).

Its not going to get through to them... But, we can hear each other.

 

[Lighthearted Atheist]

Nope, but it is GOOD ADVICE to to bother trying with some folks, who won't hear the truth when it's spoken. It's all going to be "Foolishness" to you anyway. (1 Cor 1:18).

We dismiss your claims because you cannot prove anything you say is true. Its silly to act like we are just not listening - we are. However you have the exact same evidence that every other religion on Earth has - an ancient book and personal belief.

The day you prove your belief is right and Zeus, Ganesha, and the 10,000+ other gods are false is when we'll be more receptive. But saying, "believe in Allah or else!' or 'believe in Shiva or you'll be sorry!' is not compelling, now is it?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

We dismiss your claims because you cannot prove anything you say is true. Its silly to act like we are just not listening - we are. However you have the exact same evidence that every other religion on Earth has - an ancient book and personal belief.

The day you prove your belief is right and Zeus, Ganesha, and the 10,000+ other gods are false is when we'll be more receptive. But saying, "believe in Allah or else!' or 'believe in Shiva or you'll be sorry!' is not compelling, now is it?

It's the HOLY SPIRIT that convinces, and convicts of sin, not me. You'll listen to Him.

 

[Lighthearted Atheist]

It's the HOLY SPIRIT that convinces, and convicts of sin, not me. You'll listen to Him.

It is empirical evidence that convinces me - not claims of supernatural experience from Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Wiccans, Pagans, Scientologists, and all other religions.

I do not understand why you think your claims of HOLY SPIRIT are to be believed but my friends claims of the spirit of Ganesha are not.

That day you can prove that is the day atheists listen. Or if the HOLY SPIRIT or Ganesha or Ahura Mazda ever show up at my house. So far - nothing.

But yelling HOLY SPIRIT at atheists without any proof will not help.

 

[GeneZ]

It's the HOLY SPIRIT that convinces, and convicts of sin, not me. You'll listen to Him.

They can not understand. Why can't you understand that they will not.

All men have been drawn by God. Its an *unconscious* process. Its like one hearing his own thoughts. When we have a thought we just go with the flow, and either accept what we just thought, or reject it FREELY.

Many in Israel were in the Pharisee Trap of gaining salvation by doing works. But, what leads men to salvation the quiet and unobtrusive drawing of God, who uses our thought process without one knowing its not simply a thought they are having. God sees if we approve or reject such thoughts when He gives them... Now, unlike what the Calvinists may try to tell us, that drawing can be rejected. Romans 1 tells us there are those to reject it in its earliest stages.

​

“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, ​

and I will raise them up at the last day." John 6:44​

Its not by works we are saved. Its by accepting the drawing of God. Accepting the thoughts He plants in our minds as we are being drawn along.

But, do all accept? No. Romans 1:18-22 shows us that not everyone will.

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the ​

godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth ​

by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain ​

to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the ​

creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and ​

divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what ​

has been made, so that people are without excuse. ​

​

For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave ​

thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts ​

were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools.​

​

One would have to be half moron/half genius to see the structure of how the heart and lungs function, to say it all evolved into their own processes. Dishonesty must become an art form. Wickedness will lie against the Truth no matter how plain it is. But, they were drawn by God up to a point. For it says that God made it plain to them. They will deny and hide it in the privacy of their own thoughts....

Its stupid to think the bladder and urinary process formed without an intelligent designer.

They claim to be wise (to themselves)... but they became fools. Leave a fool to his own folly.
Refute their lame ideas before those whom God is drawing in a good way.

The rejectors who are determined will not change. Read the rest of that chapter of Romans One and find out why.


grace and peace.....

 

[Bob Carabbio]

It is empirical evidence that convinces me - not claims of supernatural experience from Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Wiccans, Pagans, Scientologists, and all other religions.

I do not understand why you think your claims of HOLY SPIRIT are to be believed but my friends claims of the spirit of Ganesha are not.

That day you can prove that is the day atheists listen. Or if the HOLY SPIRIT or Ganesha or Ahura Mazda ever show up at my house. So far - nothing.

But yelling HOLY SPIRIT at atheists without any proof will not help.

I agree. When (IF) the Holy Spirit convicts you of SIN, then you will listen. Nothing I say will mean SPIT.

The Bible is clear NOBODY comes to Christ, unless they are drawn to Him by God. John 6:44.

 

[Lighthearted Atheist]

They can not understand. Why can't you understand that they will not.

We understand just fine. We just do not believe your claims since you have no way of proving THE HOLY SPIRIT is even a thing.

All men have been drawn by God. Its an *unconscious* process. Its like one hearing his own thoughts. When we have a thought we just go with the flow, and either accept what we just thought, or reject it FREELY.

When you can prove any of this we'll listen.

If someone says, "all men have been drawn to Lord Brahma' do you find that compelling? No? Why?

That might help you see your error.

Many in Israel were in the Pharisee Trap of gaining salvation by doing works. But, what leads men to salvation the quiet and unobtrusive drawing of God, who uses our thought process without one knowing its not simply a thought they are having. God sees if we approve or reject such thoughts when He gives them... Now, unlike what the Calvinists may try to tell us, that drawing can be rejected. Romans 1 tells us there are those to reject it in its earliest stages.

​

“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, ​

and I will raise them up at the last day." John 6:44​

Its not by works we are saved. Its by accepting the drawing of God. Accepting the thoughts He plants in our minds as we are being drawn along.

But, do all accept? No. Romans 1:18-22 shows us that not everyone will.

The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the ​

godlessness and wickedness of people, who suppress the truth ​

by their wickedness, since what may be known about God is plain ​

to them, because God has made it plain to them. For since the ​

creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and ​

divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what ​

has been made, so that people are without excuse. ​

​

For although they knew God, they neither glorified him as God nor gave ​

thanks to him, but their thinking became futile and their foolish hearts ​

were darkened. Although they claimed to be wise, they became fools.​

Why do you believe The Bible is true but not the Vedas or Koran or any of the other thousands of ancient books? You are quoting The Bible to us without demonstrating why any of us should believe it.

Do you find this compelling?

"Re and Thoth, take me with you, that I may eat of what you eat, that I may drink of what you drink, that I may live on what you live on, that I may sit on what you sit on, that I may be strong through that whereby you are strong, that I may sail in that in which you sail."

It was written in a pyramid 2,000 years before Jesus. Do you believe it? Do you know worship the god Thoth? No? Why?

Again - this may help you begin to see your error.

One would have to be half moron/half genius to see the structure of how the heart and lungs function, to say it all evolved into their own processes.

Th evolution is the heart and lungs is better understood than gravity. It is thoroughly studied, documents, and proven. Feel free to reject it but your ad hominum is laughable. You might as well say "you'd have to be a moron to think the Earth is round!'

Dishonesty must become an art form. Wickedness will lie against the Truth no matter how plain it is. But, they were drawn by God up to a point. For it says that God made it plain to them. They will deny and hide it in the privacy of their own thoughts....

Its stupid to think the bladder and urinary process formed without an intelligent designer.

Ad hominum. And wow. Have you studied biology at all? I mean even a little? This stuff is not a mystery.

Maybe give this science stuff a read through before you dismiss it in favor of an iron age book written by nomads.

They claim to be wise (to themselves)... but they became fools. Leave a fool to his own folly.
Refute their lame ideas before those whom God is drawing in a good way.

The rejectors who are determined will not change. Read the rest of that chapter of Romans One and find out why.


grace and peace.....

Thanks. You have offered no evidence that anything you claim is true, rejected elementary school level science, and lobbed a few grade school ad hominum. Oh - and the classic Appeal to Force logical fallacy by suggesting us silly non believers will all pay for it some day.

Well done. I accept this as your best defense of Christianity.

Thanks.

 

[Lighthearted Atheist]

I agree. When (IF) the Holy Spirit convicts you of SIN, then you will listen. Nothing I say will mean SPIT.

The Bible is clear NOBODY comes to Christ, unless they are drawn to Him by God. John 6:44.

Appeal to Force logical fallacy.

Thanks.

The Vedas is very clear that if you ignore Lord Shiva you will be judged and punished and nothing I say will mean spit...

 

[GeneZ]

We understand just fine. We just do not believe your claims since you have no way of proving THE HOLY SPIRIT is even a thing.

Could anyone prove to prime minister Arthur Neville Chamberlain that Hitler was a a real danger? Even though others saw it clearly?

 

[GeneZ]

Appeal to Force logical fallacy.

Thanks.

The Vedas is very clear that if you ignore Lord Shiva you will be judged and punished and nothing I say will mean spit...

You are arguing with myths that were created by evil as a means to counter God's truth. What you speak of is not reality. Evil knowing the mind of those ancients who will resist the Holy Spirit? Such myths were created as their excuse to deny.

Had the "Lord Shiva" ever appeared in physical form? No. You only end up with a dead and dumb idol.

Hindu is vague because it requires thousands of gods to try to appeal the the many different natural inclinations of men. Its also why when believers in Christian churches begin walking according to their own emotions they end up with forming thousands of denominations.. Its the same principle of the natural nature of man that Hindu was trying to appeal to, with its need for thousands of gods. The many denominations are manifested because of the same flaw in man's natural way of seeing life.

 

[Bob Carabbio]

We understand just fine. We just do not believe your claims since you have no way of proving THE HOLY SPIRIT is even a thing.

So, in other words, you really understand NOTHING about the only thing that matters, and YOU PROVE IT every time you post.

We were once as you are - without a CLUE. And then Conviction of SIN came.

 

[GeneZ]

So, in other words, you really understand NOTHING about the only thing that matters, and YOU PROVE IT every time you post.

We were once as you are - without a CLUE. And then Conviction of SIN came.

And, when we were yet unbelievers we may have even wanted to challenge someone to prove that their God is real.

I used to just think they were superstitious and ignorant. Fearing the unknown and needing a security blanket.

But, I did not want to bother with them like atheists want to do with Christians.

Atheists are into "faith-shaming."

 

[Bob1]

Better? To fill up your emptiness with something to entertain you? For, without Christians who know God to irk you? To be a challenge for you to prove them wrong? What would you have? And, if you do have something? Why waste your time here?

It find it hypocritical of atheists who spend time in Christian forums. To me? That would be like spending my time. Any time. Trying to convince people that there is no Santa Claus. Its trivial.

I think we cause you to find a challenge to your ego.

Christians come in the full spectrum of a bell curve. Some are idiots who lack common sense. You can have those if you like wasting your time. But, for the ones of intelligence,... even genius? You have nothing to offer. Why bother?

Its you who are the fool if there really is no God. For you keep wasting your very limited and finite time with such fools like us. Why do it? All is vanity.


Some people live to prove themselves superior to others... But, for what? When you are dead? For what?




.

Atheists challenge religious beliefs rather than Santa beliefs because Santa beliefs cause no harm to anyone (no one but extremely young children believe in Santa). Religious beliefs, on the other hand, are capable of causing tremendous suffering and harm to people and society. Religious beliefs can be and are used to fuel violence, discrimination, persecution, repression, and to influence society and law in negative ways.

So no, it's not about vanity or "superiority", rather, it's about combating a harmful element in society.

 

[Bob1]

Nope, but it is GOOD ADVICE to to bother trying with some folks, who won't hear the truth when it's spoken. It's all going to be "Foolishness" to you anyway. (1 Cor 1:18).

It's neither evidence nor "good advice".

 

[Lighthearted Atheist]

Could anyone prove to prime minister Arthur Neville Chamberlain that Hitler was a a real danger? Even though others saw it clearly?

'Danger' is subjective. A better example would be could anyone prove to prime minister Arthur Neville Chamberlain that Hitler was real? Could they prove that Nazi Germany and Hitler existed in reality?

Yes. They could show photos of the armies. They could show newsreels of Hitler giving speeches. They could talk to people from Germany who could testify to the Nazis and Hitler. You could prove Hitler and the Nazi's were real.

Can you prove God, Jesus, or THE HOLY SPIRIT are real?

 

[Bob Carabbio]

It's neither evidence nor "good advice".

A Great time saver, though.

 

[Whateverman]

You are arguing with myths that were created by evil as a means to counter God's truth.

The Vedas were written before God's "truth" was.

So no.

 

[Lighthearted Atheist]

You are arguing with myths that were created by evil as a means to counter God's truth.

Do you have an understanding of when these were written? The NT was supposed to have been written in about 50 CE.

• The oldest Vedas we have were written 2,000 years before Jesus.
• The Pyramid Texts describing the gods Ra and Osiris were written 3,200 years before Christ.
• The Summerian Kesh Temple Hymn celebrating the gods Enlil and Nenlil were written 2,600 years before Jesus.
• The Samaveda celebrating the Hindu god s were written 1,200 years before Christ

So your claim is easily falsified.

What you speak of is not reality. Evil knowing the mind of those ancients who will resist the Holy Spirit? Such myths were created as their excuse to deny.

They could not deny a god that had not been invented yet. Again, your argument is easily discredited.

Had the "Lord Shiva" ever appeared in physical form? No. You only end up with a dead and dumb idol.

Yes he did. Do you believe in Shiva now? No? Then this is not a valid argument for why you belive.

Hindu is vague because it requires thousands of gods to try to appeal the the many different natural inclinations of men. Its also why when believers in Christian churches begin walking according to their own emotions they end up with forming thousands of denominations.. Its the same principle of the natural nature of man that Hindu was trying to appeal to, with its need for thousands of gods. The many denominations are manifested because of the same flaw in man's natural way of seeing life.

This proves nothing.

Thank you.

 

[GeneZ]

Atheists challenge religious beliefs rather than Santa beliefs because Santa beliefs cause no harm to anyone (no one but extremely young children believe in Santa). Religious beliefs, on the other hand, are capable of causing tremendous suffering and harm to people and society. Religious beliefs can be and are used to fuel violence, discrimination, persecution, repression, and to influence society and law in negative ways.

So no, it's not about vanity or "superiority", rather, it's about combating a harmful element in society.

Religion is Satan's ace trump.... It entraps and controls the lives of people with fear and superstitions. Christianity is not a religion when its really Christianity. But, you'll never understand that one. So, don't ask.

All the horrible sufferings you described? In most recent history.. is to be attributed greatly to atheistic Communism. Which is a secular "religion."
So get off your high horse with me. Godless atheistic communism was responsible for millions of murders of anyone who resisted it. Millions of Christians were murdered when Communism took over China and Russia... And, Hitler was not a pope. Religion is not the problem you make it out to be.

In the mean while... Enjoy your millions of abortions.... and the wide variety of unstable sexual perversions. (that's so much better than religion to you)

Look at your own shoes.

 

[GeneZ]

Do you have an understanding of when these were written? The NT was supposed to have been written in about 50 CE.

• The oldest Vedas we have were written 2,000 years before Jesus.
• The Pyramid Texts describing the gods Ra and Osiris were written 3,200 years before Christ.
• The Summerian Kesh Temple Hymn celebrating the gods Enlil and Nenlil were written 2,600 years before Jesus.
• The Samaveda celebrating the Hindu god s were written 1,200 years before Christ

Hello?... Demons have been with man since the beginning of mankind.

They formed ancient religions, and today they organize cults They even demanded human sacrifices. You must know this since you are well studied.

Why did you use so much Wite Out when you studied these ancient religions?