Kenosis Heresy

civic said:
Sure I do since you reject He is LORD (YHWH) the Only Savior for ones sins. Yet we know God alone is the one and only Savior. I know the TRUTH and you reject the Way, the Truth and the Life.

oops...........................
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Suppose you now provide one single verse of scripture that reveals that Jesus is YHWH as you falsely believe?

You can't and you know it and so yes, I do reject Jesus as being Yahweh God, for there is no evidence in the scriptures that he is Yahweh but there is evidence that God called his own ministers by his title of "elohim" and in such verses as Exodus 21:6 and 22:8-9 and in Psalm 82:1 and 6 and also in Psalm 45:6-7 and even the Devil himself is called by the writers of scriptures, "The god of this world".

But no one besides the Father alone is ever called Yahweh God.
 
Yahweh will increase said:
Suppose you now provide one single verse of scripture that reveals that Jesus is YHWH as you falsely believe?

You can't and you know it and so yes, I do reject Jesus as being Yahweh God, for there is no evidence in the scriptures that he is Yahweh but there is evidence that God called his own ministers by his title of "elohim" and in such verses as Exodus 21:6 and 22:8-9 and in Psalm 82:1 and 6 and also in Psalm 45:6-7 and even the Devil himself is called by the writers of scriptures, "The god of this world".

But no one besides the Father alone is ever called Yahweh God.
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Jesus is the Lord in Joel, Isaiah and Jeremiah
Joel 2:27-32
27 "Thus you will know that I am in the midst of Israel,

And that I am the Lord your God,

And there is no other;

And My people will never be put to shame.

28 " It will come about after this

That I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind;

And your sons and daughters will prophesy,

Your old men will dream dreams,

Your young men will see visions.

29 "Even on the male and female servants

I will pour out My Spirit in those days.

30 "I will display wonders in the sky and on the earth,

Blood, fire and columns of smoke.

31 "The sun will be turned into darkness

And the moon into blood

Before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes.

32 "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the Lord

Will be delivered;

For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem

There will be those who escape,

As the Lord has said,

Even among the survivors whom the Lord calls.

Rom 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of C all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

Isa 45:21-24
Is it not I, the Lord?

And there is no other God besides Me,

A righteous God and a Savior;

There is none except Me.

22 " Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth;

For I am God, and there is no other.

23 "I have sworn by Myself,

The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness

And will not turn back,

That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.

24 "They will say of Me, 'Only in the Lord are righteousness and strength.'

Phil 2:9-11
For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Rom 14:10-12
For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. 11 For it is written,

" AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME,

AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD."

12 So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God.

1 Cor 2:8-9
the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory

Jeremiah 17:10 the Lord says
"I the LORD search the heart, I test the mind. Even to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his doings"

In Revelation 2:23 Jesus says
"I am He who searches the minds and hearts and I will give to each one of you according to your works"

So if Jesus is not God why would he claim to do something in Revelation that Yahweh claimed in Jeremiah?

So is it Yahweh or Jesus who searches hearts and minds?

The only name that can possibly be above all names is the name of YHWH. Even Nons are forced to agree with this one due to the fact that their own theology acknowledges that YHWH is greater in nature than Jesus. This means that Jesus shares the personal name and authority of YHWH, making Him God Himself as no one can be equal to God except God alone.

hope this helps !!!
 
civic said:
Jesus is the Lord in Joel, Isaiah and Jeremiah
Joel 2:27-32
27 "Thus you will know that I am in the midst of Israel,

And that I am the Lord your God,

And there is no other;

And My people will never be put to shame.

28 " It will come about after this

That I will pour out My Spirit on all mankind;

And your sons and daughters will prophesy,

Your old men will dream dreams,

Your young men will see visions.

29 "Even on the male and female servants

I will pour out My Spirit in those days.

30 "I will display wonders in the sky and on the earth,

Blood, fire and columns of smoke.

31 "The sun will be turned into darkness

And the moon into blood

Before the great and awesome day of the Lord comes.

32 "And it will come about that whoever calls on the name of the Lord

Will be delivered;

For on Mount Zion and in Jerusalem

There will be those who escape,

As the Lord has said,

Even among the survivors whom the Lord calls.

Rom 10:9-13
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved; 10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation. 11 For the Scripture says, "WHOEVER BELIEVES IN HIM WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek; for the same Lord is Lord of C all, abounding in riches for all who call on Him; 13 for "WHOEVER WILL CALL ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED."

Isa 45:21-24
Is it not I, the Lord?

And there is no other God besides Me,

A righteous God and a Savior;

There is none except Me.

22 " Turn to Me and be saved, all the ends of the earth;

For I am God, and there is no other.

23 "I have sworn by Myself,

The word has gone forth from My mouth in righteousness

And will not turn back,

That to Me every knee will bow, every tongue will swear allegiance.

24 "They will say of Me, 'Only in the Lord are righteousness and strength.'

Phil 2:9-11
For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus EVERY KNEE WILL BOW, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
Rom 14:10-12
For we will all stand before the judgment seat of God. 11 For it is written,

" AS I LIVE, SAYS THE LORD, EVERY KNEE SHALL BOW TO ME,

AND EVERY TONGUE SHALL GIVE PRAISE TO GOD."

12 So then each one of us will give an account of himself to God.

1 Cor 2:8-9
the wisdom which none of the rulers of this age has understood; for if they had understood it they would not have crucified the Lord of glory

Jeremiah 17:10 the Lord says
"I the LORD search the heart, I test the mind. Even to give every man according to his ways, according to the fruit of his doings"

In Revelation 2:23 Jesus says
"I am He who searches the minds and hearts and I will give to each one of you according to your works"

So if Jesus is not God why would he claim to do something in Revelation that Yahweh claimed in Jeremiah?

So is it Yahweh or Jesus who searches hearts and minds?

The only name that can possibly be above all names is the name of YHWH. Even Nons are forced to agree with this one due to the fact that their own theology acknowledges that YHWH is greater in nature than Jesus. This means that Jesus shares the personal name and authority of YHWH, making Him God Himself as no one can be equal to God except God alone.

hope this helps !!!
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I have already explained all of those verses in Joel 2 and Romans 10:8-14 to you over and over again throughout the years and I am not going to do it again, for if you were unwilling to hear the truth then, neither will you be now either and so it must be that you will end up perishing along with your doctrine and all who will not repent from it also.

As far as Jeremiah 17:10 and Revelation 2:23 goes, it is because Jesus being God's only perfect representative and heir (human Son), God has given him the knowledge to do this.

Now then, you need to read the full context of Isaiah 45 concerning God's appointment of Cyrus to rule over all the people and the fact that their bowing to Cyrus meant also that they were bowing to Yahweh being Yahweh anointed Cyrus to rule over them as a type of Christ.


Therefore, your argument on the context of Isaiah 45 couples with Philippians 2:9-11 and Romans 14:10-12 is quite ignorant, for if you read Isaiah 45 carefully, God was going to give Cyrus the rule over all the people and by being put in servitude to Cyrus, they would therefore be bowing to God likewise and the same goes for Christ being made Lord and Christ (Acts 2:36) also.

You will notice also, that they will bow to Jesus unto the glory of God the Father and therefore in their bowing to Christ Jesus, they are also bowing to God the Father because he is the one who appointed and made Christ as Lord just like he also appointed Cyrus also and in Isaiah 45 as the type of Jesus Christ.
 
Yahweh will increase said:
I have already explained all of those verses in Joel 2 and Romans 10:8-14 to you over and over again throughout the years and I am not going to do it again, for if you were unwilling to hear the truth then, neither will you be now either and so it must be that you will end up perishing along with your doctrine and all who will not repent from it also.

As far as Jeremiah 17:10 and Revelation 2:23 goes, it is because Jesus being God's only perfect representative and heir (human Son), God has given him the knowledge to do this.

Now then, you need to read the full context of Isaiah 45 concerning God's appointment of Cyrus to rule over all the people and the fact that their bowing to Cyrus meant also that they were bowing to Yahweh being Yahweh anointed Cyrus to rule over them as a type of Christ.


Therefore, your argument on the context of Isaiah 45 couples with Philippians 2:9-11 and Romans 14:10-12 is quite ignorant, for if you read Isaiah 45 carefully, God was going to give Cyrus the rule over all the people and by being put in servitude to Cyrus, they would therefore be bowing to God likewise and the same goes for Christ being made Lord and Christ (Acts 2:36) also.

You will notice also, that they will bow to Jesus unto the glory of God the Father and therefore in their bowing to Christ Jesus, they are also bowing to God the Father because he is the one who appointed and made Christ as Lord just like he also appointed Cyrus also and in Isaiah 45 as the type of Jesus Christ.
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Indeed, ALL creation will worship Jesus Christ.
It is ONLY as The Son is worshipped that The Father is glorified.
Father and Son receive the SAME honor and worship.
BTW there is NO human Son of God, ONLY The Divine Son of God.
 
Manfred said:
Please clarify "period of humiliation"

I can tell you that at the moment of death He was neither. He was a corpse for 3 days and His Divine nature was preaching to the spirits.
After 3 days He was restored to being both God and man with a brand new glorified body, like those in Christ will have at His return.
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He was resurrected, but NOT restored to being God, since God NEVER ceases to be God.
 
Yahweh will increase said:
Suppose you now provide one single verse of scripture that reveals that Jesus is YHWH as you falsely believe?

You can't and you know it and so yes, I do reject Jesus as being Yahweh God, for there is no evidence in the scriptures that he is Yahweh but there is evidence that God called his own ministers by his title of "elohim" and in such verses as Exodus 21:6 and 22:8-9 and in Psalm 82:1 and 6 and also in Psalm 45:6-7 and even the Devil himself is called by the writers of scriptures, "The god of this world".

But no one besides the Father alone is ever called Yahweh God.
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Where is The Father called Yahweh God????
 
Yahweh will increase said:
ROFLOL, this just shows more of your own Bible illiteracy and ignorance, for this prophecy of Isaiah 7:14 was meant to have two fulfillments and its first fulfillment was in Isaiah's second son whose actually name given was Emmanuel and each of Isaiah's sons names were given as messages to both Judah and Jerusalem and Israel of things that God was going to do in their day.

For instance, the message of God in Isaiah's second sons name "Emmanuel" was that although the two Kings mentioned had plotted to overtake Judah and Jerusalem, God would be with them and the conspiracy of those two Kings would not succeed.

Therefore the name is only meant to reveal that God would be with his people in a certain way and in the case of Jesus, it would be that he would through Jesus provide forgiveness and atonement for their sins.

By the way, the Hebrew word "virgin" can either mean a young maiden like Isaiah's wife or an actually virgin as it applies to Mary the mother of Jesus.

Therefore, you are really quite ignorant even though you think that you have it all figured out.
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NO son of Isaiah was called Emmanuel. ONLY Jesus Christ has that title.
 
Yahweh will increase said:
You are right that one of us is wrong and it is you dude, for I have proven right from the 60 times the word "huparchon" as is used in Philippians 2:6, is used in the NT, that it never refers to anything that exists eternally.

For even when Paul uses it for God being "huparchon" the Lord of Heaven and Earth in Acts 17:24, his being Lord of heaven and earth was not an eternal position any more than heaven and earth is eternal, for he had to have created heaven and earth first to become Lord of it.

Again, the same goes for when Paul again uses it in Acts 17:27 "He (God) is "huparchon" not far from any of us, he had to have created us first in order not to be far from any of us and therefore again, his position of not being far from any of us was not eternal.

The same is true for the word "morphe" in Philippians 2:6, for the way that the NT translates this word or it's root or relative words, it never refers to the, substance, essence or ontology but only to what is seen outwardly.

Furthermore, even when it is argued that it can at times refer to the outward characteristics of the inward reality or substance, Jesus in John 14:10 explained for us that the reason why when we saw him, we saw the Father was because the substance of the Father was dwelling within him and doing the works through him and not because he himself was also God.

ROFLOL, sorry but this passage doesn't help your doctrine either, because John is saying that we must believe that Jesus Christ has come and continues in the flesh and flesh must be understood as what the Bible tells us about flesh and there is no such thing as flesh that is also God and still remains flesh like the Bible reveals flesh.


You are being deceived dude and unfortunately, although you may have been an intelligent person otherwise, your false doctrines have made you quite simple to say the least Civic, for you read right past many things in the scriptures that prove that your doctrine is false but you cannot see them because you have willingly become brainwashed by your false teaching.
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The Father dwells in all believers. NONE of them can say he who sees me sees The Father.
ONLY The Son of The Father can make that claim.
 
Yahweh will increase said:
You are right that one of us is wrong and it is you dude, for I have proven right from the 60 times the word "huparchon" as is used in Philippians 2:6, is used in the NT, that it never refers to anything that exists eternally.

For even when Paul uses it for God being "huparchon" the Lord of Heaven and Earth in Acts 17:24, his being Lord of heaven and earth was not an eternal position any more than heaven and earth is eternal, for he had to have created heaven and earth first to become Lord of it.

Again, the same goes for when Paul again uses it in Acts 17:27 "He (God) is "huparchon" not far from any of us, he had to have created us first in order not to be far from any of us and therefore again, his position of not being far from any of us was not eternal.

The same is true for the word "morphe" in Philippians 2:6, for the way that the NT translates this word or it's root or relative words, it never refers to the, substance, essence or ontology but only to what is seen outwardly.

Furthermore, even when it is argued that it can at times refer to the outward characteristics of the inward reality or substance, Jesus in John 14:10 explained for us that the reason why when we saw him, we saw the Father was because the substance of the Father was dwelling within him and doing the works through him and not because he himself was also God.

ROFLOL, sorry but this passage doesn't help your doctrine either, because John is saying that we must believe that Jesus Christ has come and continues in the flesh and flesh must be understood as what the Bible tells us about flesh and there is no such thing as flesh that is also God and still remains flesh like the Bible reveals flesh.


You are being deceived dude and unfortunately, although you may have been an intelligent person otherwise, your false doctrines have made you quite simple to say the least Civic, for you read right past many things in the scriptures that prove that your doctrine is false but you cannot see them because you have willingly become brainwashed by your false teaching.
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Jesus HAS COME in the flesh???
Wow! WHO was He BEFORE??An angel???God???
NO other alternative.
 
johnny guitar said:
So you are now claiming God sent an angel to save all mankind from their sins.
Utter blasphemy. Angels have NO power to save even one man.
Rankest heresy I have ever heard.
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Isaiah 9:6 For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him.

7His government shall be great, and of his peace there is no end: it shall be upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to establish it, and to support itwith judgement and with righteousness, from henceforth and forever. The seal of the Lord of hosts shall perform this.
 
Roger Thornhill said:
Isaiah 9:6 For a child is born to us, and a son is given to us, whose government is upon his shoulder: and his name is called the Messenger of great counsel: for I will bring peace upon the princes, and health to him.

7His government shall be great, and of his peace there is no end: it shall be upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to establish it, and to support itwith judgement and with righteousness, from henceforth and forever. The seal of the Lord of hosts shall perform this.
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What version are you quoting????
Mine says Wonderful, Counselor, The Mighty God, The Prince of peace.
 
Yahweh will increase said:
ROFLOL, this just shows more of your own Bible illiteracy and ignorance, for this prophecy of Isaiah 7:14 was meant to have two fulfillments and its first fulfillment was in Isaiah's second son whose actually name given was Emmanuel and each of Isaiah's sons names were given as messages to both Judah and Jerusalem and Israel of things that God was going to do in their day.
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You keep rolling around on the floor laughing out loud. When on earth do you get time to respond...
So your claim it is that it is not a messianic prophesy and that one of Isaiah's sons was God with us.

Ok, Matthew musta got it wrong....
22 All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet:
23 Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel (which means, God with us).

Yahweh will increase said:
For instance, the message of God in Isaiah's second sons name "Emmanuel" was that although the two Kings mentioned had plotted to overtake Judah and Jerusalem, God would be with them and the conspiracy of those two Kings would not succeed.

Therefore the name is only meant to reveal that God would be with his people in a certain way and in the case of Jesus, it would be that he would through Jesus provide forgiveness and atonement for their sins.

By the way, the Hebrew word "virgin" can either mean a young maiden like Isaiah's wife or an actually virgin as it applies to Mary the mother of Jesus.

Therefore, you are really quite ignorant even though you think that you have it all figured out.
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So was Matthew it seems....
22 All this took place to fulfill what the Lord had spoken by the prophet:
23 Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel (which means, God with us).

I think I will stick with the Word of God instead of with the word of someone rolling around on the floor laughing out loud all the time. I can just see it in my minds eye, you reading Matthew 1:22-23 and then rolling around on the floor laughing out loud at Matthew, and calling him ignorant.
 
Yahweh will increase said:
As soon as you reveal the difference that you think there is between the NIV on Isaiah 46:9-10 and the ESV on Isaiah 46;9-10, for that should be interested being there really isn't any to speak of, and I have looked up the verses many times on the Bible Hub Interlinear also.

Remember, you are the one who asked me why I used the NIV for Isaiah 46:9-10 and as though it was really that different from the original text and so you are the one who needs to explain what you meant by this.


Now then, concerning my attitude, you should know right from the start that I view all who teach un Biblical false doctrines like yours as workers of Satan and those of the worst kind also and I don't believe that I have to be gentle and kind to the Devil and those who are doing his works.

If you were totally ignorant of the scriptures, I would have a different attitude with you, but being you know enough to see the many contradictions that exist in your doctrines and you still will not be honest about them, that makes you a minister of the Devil.


The difference between the ESV and the NIV on Philippians 2:6 is much, much greater than the difference in the NIV and the ESV concerning Isaiah 46:9-10.

Furthermore and no matter how you want to slice it, God's words in Isaiah 46:9-10 and Jesus' words in Matthew 24:36 very clearly reveal that Jesus could not possibly be equal (exactly like) God the Father.
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But Matthew had no clue in 1:22-23

Keep laughing while rolling around on the floor....
 
Roger Thornhill said:
It was the angel of Great Counsel.
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ERROR, listen, Hebrews 2:16 "For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham."
Roger, think... ther are only three entities, 1. God, 2 angels, and 3. humans. now if he did not take on the nature of angels, then his nature has to be Godly, or human. by sinple deduction, he is neither angel nor human before he took on the nature of Abraham. seed so he could not be an angel.

PICJAG. 101G.
 
101G said:
ERROR, listen, Hebrews 2:16 "For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham."
Roger, think... ther are only three entities, 1. God, 2 angels, and 3. humans. now if he did not take on the nature of angels, then his nature has to be Godly, or human. by sinple deduction, he is neither angel nor human before he took on the nature of Abraham. seed so he could not be an angel.

PICJAG. 101G.
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Are you a proponent of KJV-only?
 
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