Why Jews will never accept Jesus

Jewjitzu said:
And the new covenant is merely the same law written on the hearts and minds. It makes a bigger impact than being written on stone.
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Yes, it is internalized through the Holy Spirit which can only be received through the Jesus who brought in the New Covenant. This gives us the relationship that Abraham had with God.
 
Jewjitzu said:
Where did Jesus say God gave him the words in this case? He didn't.
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"I can of my own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which has sent me" - Jesus John 5:30
 
Open Heart said:
No, the New Testament is not what God says, since it contradicts the Torah, which we know to be God's word.
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You have been taught that it contradicts the Torah and you just parrot what you have been taught. The New Covenant is the fulfillment of the Torah.
 
Open Heart said:
That's not the point. The point was that sacrifices were still performed by Christians.
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Hebrew Christians, and only as a formality because they understood that the forgiveness of sins was accomplished through Jesus' sacrifice. They went to the temple to witness that fact. After a time of evangelism the temple was destroyed putting an end to an obsolete system.
 
Open Heart said:
LOL, first, you can't possibly know that this is the case, since you don't know me in real life. Second, I have told you specifically that I have studied this in depth. Unless you want to call me a liar, you kind of have to assume that this is then true.
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You are not a liar, you are just not that smart.
 
Open Heart said:
Biblican, what Christians call "salvation," aka the saving of us from our sins, simply doesn't exist in Judaism. It's something Christians have made up. Judaism doesn't even consider the afterlife to be an important thing -- we obey God because he is God and worthy of being obeyed, not to gain heaven. Heck the Torah doesn't even mention the afterlife.

The point, Biblican, is that obedience of the Law of God is required of Jews. You get no sense of that from Paul or Christianity in general. Its more like, "do what you want, its your choice."
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You have just displayed your ignorance of the scriptures once again. You don't have a clue what the tabernacle services were for - salvation. Do a study in the Old Testament of how many times the resurrection and the hope associated with it is mentioned. Then go over the New Testament and make a notation every time there is a reference to holiness, commandments to abstain from fornication, etc. and the instructions to read the Old Testament, so we may "walk in the things that are pleasing to God." Those are Paul's words.
 
Biblican said:
You don't understand Paul very well.
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Who does?
Paul does absolutely contradict the Torah and directly contradicts Yeshua. There's just no getting around that no matter how hard one tries.
If you can satisfactorily explain the way Paul says it's okay to eat food that has been sacrificed to idols, you should do it - not only for me but for any Jew reading here.
 
Biblican said:
"I can of my own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not my own will, but the will of the Father which has sent me" - Jesus John 5:30
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You can't judge without a court. Jesus had no authority.
 
Biblican said:
Yes, it is internalized through the Holy Spirit which can only be received through the Jesus who brought in the New Covenant. This gives us the relationship that Abraham had with God.
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Actually, Zechariah 7:12, and Ezekiel 36:26-27, show no connection to Jesus.
 
Biblican said:
Yes, it is internalized through the Holy Spirit which can only be received through the Jesus who brought in the New Covenant. This gives us the relationship that Abraham had with God.
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You say, Yes. But does this really mean you agreed with what he said? He said the SAME LAW written upon our hearts. That's the 613 commandments of the Torah. And this is what you agree to? Because I don't think you have those laws "written upon your heart," or you would be doing things like making sure your wool suits didn't have linen threads for the button holes.
 
Biblican said:
You have been taught that it contradicts the Torah and you just parrot what you have been taught. The New Covenant is the fulfillment of the Torah.
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No, I have seen it for myself. Remember I was raised believing there was no contradiction. It had to be proven to me that it was otherwise. You can call me parrot all you want, but I'm the only one in here that has actually made a switch from one religion to the other, which documents openmindedness and serious thought. DOCUMENTS it.
 
Biblican said:
Hebrew Christians, and only as a formality because they understood that the forgiveness of sins was accomplished through Jesus' sacrifice. They went to the temple to witness that fact. After a time of evangelism the temple was destroyed putting an end to an obsolete system.
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You are simply making up stuff that is not in the text. The text doesn't go into their heads. It tells what they did with their bodies, which is offer sacrifices. The fact that the church in Jerusalem was entirely Jewish is an interesting thing, but it has no bearing on the discussion.
 
Biblican said:
You have just displayed your ignorance of the scriptures once again. You don't have a clue what the tabernacle services were for - salvation.
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The sacrifices in the tabernacle/temple were for many reasons, including the sheer worship of God, but none of those reasons were "salvation." That idea is completely missing from the Torah. It is Christian, not Jewish.
 
Open Heart said:
You say, Yes. But does this really mean you agreed with what he said? He said the SAME LAW written upon our hearts. That's the 613 commandments of the Torah. And this is what you agree to? Because I don't think you have those laws "written upon your heart," or you would be doing things like making sure your wool suits didn't have linen threads for the button holes.
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Why would it be internalized, or the need for it when Paul says:

1 Timothy 1:9-10
We also know that the law is made not for the righteous but for lawbreakers and rebels, the ungodly and sinful, the unholy and irreligious, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers, for the sexually immoral, for those practicing homosexuality, for slave traders and liars and perjurers—and for whatever else is contrary to the sound doctrine...

This is the hypocrisy that is Paul, and what Biblicon is saying. He doesn't have the spirit, will, desire of God to keep His laws. The spirit of holiness is evident when one keeps the commandments. Be Holy because I'm Holy, separate, dedicated to God.
 
Rachel Redux said:
Who does?
Paul does absolutely contradict the Torah and directly contradicts Yeshua. There's just no getting around that no matter how hard one tries.
If you can satisfactorily explain the way Paul says it's okay to eat food that has been sacrificed to idols, you should do it - not only for me but for any Jew reading here.
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Under the New Covenant those things are not requirements for salvation, which is what Paul was teaching, and they never really were. They were basically health laws for the people's protection. To a Christian a pagan idol is nothing, meaningless and has no power over the Christian. His ministry was to the Gentiles who had no knowledge of the Jewish laws. Paul did not negate them but taught them in a way that would be understandable to the Gentile. He instructed them not to eat things sacrificed to idols so as not to be a stumblingblock to those who had been raised in the law. Food laws were not to be a barrier when ministering to the Gentiles. So they could eat anything that was set before them in a Gentile home, and to not ask questions for conscience sake. But if it was said specifically that the meat was offered to an idol, then as a witness the food is to be refused I Cor. 10:27,28. Remember it was God who gave the dream to Peter to eat the unclean foods, which was meant to tell him it was time to bring the gospel to the Gentiles which was prophesied in the Old Covenant. Again, the food laws were not to be a barrier in reaching the Gentiles. Paul taught not to eat with any professed Christian who was in wilful sin, so separation from sin was part of his message, which is the principle behind the law.
 
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