Jesus spoke from His Humanity there, as he was submitting to the father while upon the earth as the God man!
Jesus was speaking as a Man there, but he was also fully God
Our Lord's God
Well-known member
I'm sure Jesus was doing whatever suits your needs.
Jesus is God!
Thanks for the information. We should pray that God will cause the increase in recovering him from this & any other heresy before He comes.?
2 Timothy 4:18 And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen.
Our Lord's God
Well-known member
I'm sure he is whatever you want him to be.
Jesus claimed to be God, was he a liar or deluded then?
Our Lord's God
Well-known member
No he didn't. The only God he knew was his God.
No, but many like to tell lies about him.
G
guest1
Guest
Amen
G
guest1
Guest
no the unitarian is deluded and believes the spirit of antichrist as per 1 and 2 John
Why don't you take His answer in context to the woman's comment to Jesus on where to worship God at then?
John 4:19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet. 20 Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. 21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. 22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. 23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. 24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
So Jesus testified to the coming hour & now is where believers will not be confined to a specific place to worship Him, for He is Omnipresent. That is why Jesus said God is a Spirit so believers can worship Him anywhere.
Like you were doing with God is a Spirit?
Then explain how anyone else or anything else can defy God when He said "Let us.." and yet the following verse testifies that only God did it? Who was God talking to in so doing? And yet when the deed was performed, only God did it?
You explain what is meant by "Let us.." then. Who was God talking to but only God did it?
God created man after His image and after His likeness so He is not quite so invisible or a Spirit as you took that verse out of context to mean.
Jesus existed before His incarnation as the God men had seen in the O.T. Jesus Christ Before His Incarnation As Seen By O.T. Saints
And yet the Father & the Holy Ghost did bother to bear witness of Jesus as His Son at His water baptism in seeking the glory of His Son for why 1 John 5:7-8 in the KJV was originally scripture. .
Explain the plurality in these verses.
John 14:23 Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him..... 26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
1 John 5:6 This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth. 7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. 8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the Spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. 9 If we receive the witness of men, the witness of God is greater: for this is the witness of God which he hath testified of his Son. 10 He that believeth on the Son of God hath the witness in himself: he that believeth not God hath made him a liar; because he believeth not the record that God gave of his Son.
If you remove verses 7-8, then how can God's testimony be greater then men's testimony in the earth? That is why it is originally scripture.
Our Lord's God
Well-known member
God created man in His image. The passage tells you what that image looked like. It's like looking at your image in the mirror. If you look at the image, then you know what the genuine McCoy looks like. The image of US is THEM, male and female.
God said, “Let US make man in OUR image, according to OUR likeness; and let THEM rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over the cattle and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” 27 God created man in His own image, in the image of God He created him; male and female He created THEM. 28 God blessed THEM and God said to THEM, “Be fruitful and multiply, and fill the earth, and subdue it; and rule over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the sky and over every living thing that moves on the earth.”
And God called THEM "Adam." Gen 5:2
THEM is the image of US. THEM is male and female. Hence, male and female are the image of "US."
Since "male and female" is the image of US, can you tell me HOW MANY there are in the "US" group?
And, now that you know the image of US and OUR is male and female, can you tell me WHO the "us" might be?
God man? Man is a god? The ancient Greek worshiped man as a god.
The God Jesus prayed to and obeyed and said sent him for a witness for what it is to be of the God who is a Spirit and not flesh at all.
They must continue to rely upon Christ's sacrifice to cover their sins. They are still working or endeavoring to keep the law through their own will and effort (Romans 9:16). That's how it works under the Old Covenant.
I'll go along with that. I don't see how that interferes with what I'm posting.
Strawman argument. I'm just pointing out that those who continue to sin regardless of whatever label you choose to apply to them, are still subjected to the law of sacrifices, and must continue to rely upon Christ's sacrifice to cover their sins. I'm contrasting that (Just like we see in 1 John) with those who are walking after the Spirit.
I don't know why you think the gospel shouldn't be proclaimed to them. It's not an either/or issue. There's no reason to refrain from proclaiming the gospel to them.
You might have a point here. Perhaps you could elaborate on this.
Nowhere have I ever claimed I was perfect. This is why it is so important to refrain from engaging in Ad Hominem. It immediately confuses the argument with who is making it. I can point out that there is no sin in Christ, and that anyone who is in Christ cannot sin, and instead of engaging in that argument, people would rather focus on me which detracts from the validity of the argument. I could be damned, and it doesn't negate the argument I'm presenting.
This is a claim that cannot be proven. You're just assuming this to be the case.
Again, this doesn't really address what I'm posting. It doesn't refute it because I'm not working under the same assumptions you are. What you just posted applies to those under the Old Covenant.
I don't know what else to say except keep looking at that until you see what he said. Note again that it is a Given that there are those who are perfect.
Agreed, but this also goes to my point which is that there is a clear distinction between those who are made perfect in Christ versus those who are attempting to attain perfection, or at the very least keep and observe God's commandments to the best of their ability. Either way, they're doing what they're called to do. The former keep God's commandments because they're created to keep them while the latter keep them as best they can according to their own will and effort. The former keep the law perfectly while the latter can only try their best which will never result in keeping the law perfectly. Even so, they must continue to do their best.
1 John 1:3-9 testifies a present walking with the Father & the Son in the light while this blood is cleansing them from all sins and not just confessing them. It is an ongoing sanctification process while that foundation remains for how they were forever sanctified by thus rferring to salvation obtained.
You insinuating believers living in sin in need of that continual sacrifice is denying the salvation obtained for why I see you as insinuating they are not saved.
Christians that uses communion for receiving presently the sacrifice for sins, are actually offending God by treating the blood of the Covenant on par with the blood of goats and bulls that bears repeating in Hebrews 10th chapter. That is the point of how we are forever sanctified as the holy Ghost bears witness being within us.. is salvation obtained.
By insinuating they are under the Old Covenant and not the New is to say they are not saved yet.
The apostle John was addressing in the Book of 1 John that professing believers were believing in error that if they sin, it is not sin to them for why John pointed to how He walked for how we should walk as well, not in darkness but in the light in fellowship with the Father & the Son.
I have shown you the scripture that has Paul testifying that he has not obtained perfection but strive for it in response to that upward call in Christ. This is considered as running that race by faith in Jesus Christ to help us lay aside every weight & sin .. daily.... until He comes.
Those under the Old Covenant are not saved. If they are believers in Jesus Christ then they are born again of the Spirit and are under the New Covenant. What we build on that foundation will be judged. Indeed, Jesus will prune things from those connected to the vine so they can bear more fruit as His disciples but if they refuse correction, they risk being left behind when He comes per John 15:1-8.
Paul has not obtained it et so... if he can become a castaway, then what does that tell you of his present sate at the time he was living on earth? Someone that needs to rely on Jesus Christ all the time in running that race and that race cannot be run unless you are under the New Covenant..
Paul would not be running that race if he was perfect. There would be no upward call of Christ if he was already there. That is why he runs by faith in Jesus Christ LOOKING to the author & finisher of our faith, to help him lay aside every weight & sin.
Those who try to finish by the flesh what was begun with the Spirit by doing the best they can, are still under the New Covenant as in saved, but building offenses on that foundation that has to be repented from because without solely by faith in Him in running that race, they cannot please God & they will fail until they surrender to relying on Jesus Christ BY LOOKING to Him ALL THE TIME instead of LOOKING to themselves in doing the best they can by the religious flesh & will power. If they get left behind when the Bridegroom comes, He will still finish His work in them because they are saved by burning off of that foundation all that offends Him so they can be received & partakers of His holiness.
Therein lies the problem. They are both under the New Covenant, but the only way one can keep His commandments, are the ones that are looking to Him to help them do it. By testifying to them doing the best they can, your comment belies Him having created & thus enabling them to do that. So that is why I am having hard time understanding your comments as they do seem to be in opposition by itself.
Jesus never said believers should worship him.
God is a spirit, did I say otherwise...from what I recall you are the one saying God is a trinity. That my friend is raping the scripture.
That is your lack of understanding. You cannot just assume that let us is a request to another God.
The scripture does not say.
I don't see how that changes anything. That is like a father telling a three year old, let us change a tire. He just stands there and watches his father change the tire.
It means let us... why do you need another explanation?
It does not say, why do you need to know? You are behaving like Eve and the forbidden fruit.
Since God created man in his image it means that God has an image...you do know that an image is something that can be seen right. What it means is if God chooses to make himself visible you will see the image of a man.
There is no mention of an incarnation in the scripture
There is no mention of an incarnation in the scripture.
No mention of the HS bearing witness at Jesus baptism
Jesus already did, he is in the father and the father in him.
Acts 2 explains that,,,
30 Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne;
31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
32 This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.
34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Johannine Comma explains that
Jesus words and deeds got him killed for claiming to be God of the Jews!
That is how we will be judged.
John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son: 23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
Honoring the Son is the only way to honor & glorify God the Father.
John 13:31 Therefore, when he was gone out, Jesus said, Now is the Son of man glorified, and God is glorified in him. 32 If God be glorified in him, God shall also glorify him in himself, and shall straightway glorify him.
Paul taught that this is the mind of Christ we are to have in worship as he testified to Jesus Christ of His deity..
Philippians 2:5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name: 10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; 11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
You haven't proven yet that you are not taking God is a Spirit out of context when I just shown you, you did.
There is no other God so that means there are 3 Witnesses within the Godhead.
If He wasn't talking to another God, then He was talking to Himself as that One God, but yet God is not crazy so there is only one explanation left; there are more Persons within that One God. What God commands of men to establish a testimony or to bear true witness & not to judge any one by only one person or one witness,, God is doing the same thing as a Judge & a Witness as the Triune God.
Yet that is why the high priest condemned Jesus at His trial.
Isaiah 45:5 I am the Lord, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: 6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the Lord, and there is none else. 7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the Lord do all these things.
Yet Jesus is exalted to the right hand of God the Father.
Isaiah 45:20 Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god that cannot save. 21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I the Lord? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me. 22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
Yet Jesus is called the Savior and we are to call on His name to be saved.
Some believers did not like that because they too did not believe in the deity of Jesus Christ nor the 3 Witnesses within One God, but fearing God, they did not drop it entirely from scripture but made it as a Johannine Comma. Ask God for wisdom today.
James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
Agreed.
Could you rephrase that sentence? I don't understand what you're claiming here. I don't think I'm insinuating anything. I'm probably not insinuating what you think so perhaps it might be better if you presented an argument instead of making claims about what I'm saying. In other words, try Steelmanning instead of presenting claims that are not based upon anything I'm actually posting.
I disagree. There are plenty who are saved under the Old Covenant.
Agreed, but that's not all John as addressing.
No doubt about it.
I disagree.
This is too vague. It's meaningless. One person claims they believe, and their life is no different than before they made this claim. Others makes some changes in their lives, but ultimately, it is only those who God has begotten in the spirit who are truly saved believers.
Only those who walk after the Spirit and do not fulfil the lust of the flesh can run that race. Paul is exhorting the church to run that race, but his exhortation applies to those who are born again as well as those who aren't. It is always right to do the right thing regardless of whether one is saved or not.
Someone who is relying upon Christ exclusively isn't running that race? News to me. I don't see how anyone who isn't relying upon Christ can finish the race, perhaps they may not even be able to begin the race.
Agreed. You're still making a lot of false assumptions. I could point out that Paul is still functioning under the Old or New Covenant, and it would not necessarily follow that I am under one or the other. Paul can speak for himself, but he can also reveal what God has given him to disclose which doesn't necessarily reflect on his own situation. We can only go by what he actually reveals concerning himself.
Laying aside every weight and sin is sinless perfection.
I disagree. The Old Covenant begins with making a choice to do one's best to keep God's commandments. The New Covenant begins with God's sovereign will, choosing whomsoever he will, and guaranteeing that choice to the end. The New Covenant is clearly defined by the fact that those God chooses KEEP his commandments. That is what distinguishes the New from the Old.
Again, you seem to be making my points for me. Anyone can rely upon themselves regardless of when they are born into this world. The same goes for those who rely upon God. These terms "Old" and "New" reflect that distinction. Those who still fail to keep God's commandments are still living under the constraints of the Old Covenant. They cannot be born again believers until they're born again believers. That can only happen when God wills it. It has nothing to do with any claims of belief.
Again, I disagree. These terms do not refer to unbelievers. They refer to the distinction between those who keep the commandments because they should (Old) and those who keep the commandments because they're a new creation (New).
Agreed. Those are they who are begotten from above.
No. Someone who does the best THEY can is not keeping God's commandments. They're still working for their own salvation. Those who are a new creation, are being led by the Spirit to do God's will according to God's will, and this is only done in, with, and through Christ. Big difference.
Jesus never said anyone should worship him
nothing here says we must worship Jesus. We accept Jesus is above us but God is above Jesus.
1 Corinthians 11:3
But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
You didn't show me anything...Are you saying God is not a spirit? That would be calling Jesus a liar...I am speaking what Jesus spoke...
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.
23 But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him.
24 God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
25 The woman saith unto him, I know that Messias cometh, which is called Christ: when he is come, he will tell us all things.
26 Jesus saith unto her, I that speak unto thee am he.
That is a catholic construct ...it is not written in the scripture...
Then you have more than one God in the one God
God is not a man he needs no witnesses
That is what men do they lie...You need the HS in you to stop lying.
You should ask God for the wisdom my friend...To us there is but one God the father...
Quoting scriptures is not helping your position of many Gods. Believers have one God the father.