Mary as Aeiparthenos; why?

Lastdaysbeliever said:
What exactly does the dogma of Mary, the mother of Jesus, as "ever-virgin" accomplish? What exactly is the Rcc trying to advance with this demand on its laity to embrace and further declare and deny Mary had other children? To what end?
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It the conclusion we come to based on the role she played in salvation history. She was God's chosen vessel to bring his son into the world. She is the new Eve and the ark of the new covenant....Her perpetual virginity is a result of understanding her role. I don't know if her perpetual virginity accomplishes anything in itself but understanding her as being the new Eve and the ark of the new covenant is big.
 
dingoling. said:
It the conclusion we come to based on the role she played in salvation history. She was God's chosen vessel to bring his son into the world. She is the new Eve and the ark of the new covenant....Her perpetual virginity is a result of understanding her role. I don't know if her perpetual virginity accomplishes anything in itself but understanding her as being the new Eve and the ark of the new covenant is big.
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To what end? Why must she be an "ever-virgin"? What is the Rcc achieving in this dogma?
 
Lastdaysbeliever said:
What exactly does the dogma of Mary, the mother of Jesus, as "ever-virgin" accomplish? What exactly is the Rcc trying to advance with this demand on its laity to embrace and further declare and deny Mary had other children? To what end?
Click to expand...
They are replacing Jesus with Mary, Mary as a mother is softer and more caring it seems than Jesus, Jesus who suffered and died for us. To make her above other humans they deny her a normal marriage with its benefits. It is strange as children are seen as a blessing from God by the Jewish people of that time.

Also some of the ECFs had weird views on woman, sex etc.

Also putting Mary on a pedestal and the RCC way of portraying her, is to keep the girls pure. I mean we were told even stories about saints who preferred to die that lose their virginity. I always wondered if the boys got the same lectures on remaining pure. If RC priests are a guide then they fell on deaf ears.
 
dingoling. said:
It the conclusion we come to based on the role she played in salvation history. She was God's chosen vessel to bring his son into the world. She is the new Eve and the ark of the new covenant....Her perpetual virginity is a result of understanding her role. I don't know if her perpetual virginity accomplishes anything in itself but understanding her as being the new Eve and the ark of the new covenant is big.
Click to expand...
Mary's perpetual virginity has zero effect on Jesus' ability to redeem us from sin on the cross. Catholics consider marriage a sacrament, yet one Catholic on here told me years ago that Mary was a sacred vessel that God used to bring His Son into the world and as such, she had to remain a virgin, and not be given back to Joseph for "common use." So, since when is marriage, a sacrament in the RCC, "common usage" between a husband and wife? If it is a holy sacrament?

Nowhere does the Bible refer to Mary as the new Eve or ark of the New Covenant. Nowhere. Not even a hint. But even if it did teach such things, that still would not preclude Mary and Joseph having children together in the bonds of holy and lawful matrimony, which is blessed by God since Adam and Eve.

There is no reason in the world that, after Jesus was born, and her period of purification was finished, Mary and Joseph could not have resumed a normal, married life, and joyfully raised up more children together, children of Joseph's body. I think God graciously gave them back to each other, blessing both of them with more children for their humble obedience.
 
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balshan said:
They are replacing Jesus with Mary, Mary as a mother is softer and more caring it seems than Jesus, Jesus who suffered and died for us. To make her above other humans they deny her a normal marriage with its benefits. It is strange as children are seen as a blessing from God by the Jewish people of that time.

Also some of the ECFs had weird views on woman, sex etc.

Also putting Mary on a pedestal and the RCC way of portraying her, is to keep the girls pure. I mean we were told even stories about saints who preferred to die that lose their virginity. I always wondered if the boys got the same lectures on remaining pure. If RC priests are a guide then they fell on deaf ears.
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It is Jesus who was scrouged and bloodied, spit upon and mocked, and finally nailed to the cross, suffering agony for our sins. And yet it is Mary who is "softer and more caring"???

You are correct: some of the ECFs were downright misogynistic
 
dingoling. said:
It the conclusion we come to based on the role she played in salvation history. She was God's chosen vessel to bring his son into the world. She is the new Eve and the ark of the new covenant....Her perpetual virginity is a result of understanding her role. I don't know if her perpetual virginity accomplishes anything in itself but understanding her as being the new Eve and the ark of the new covenant is big.
Click to expand...
It's also TOTALLY PHONY, as are all the phony "Titles" and attributes the Roman Catholic church has loaded on to her to synthesize their adaptation of the goddess Diana into their "blessed Virgin" thing.

The REAL Mary (Jesus' mom), was NOT:
Immaculately conceived,
Perpetually Virgin,
Ever Sinless,
Assumed into heaven,
And isn't our "Agent" to arm-twist her Son into doing what we want since "Jesus won't say "NO" to his mom".

The Catholics would be 1000 miles closer to the truth, if they'd just TRASH all that Mariology garbage, and pay some attention to what the Bible says about her - AND HIM.
 
Bonnie said:
Mary's perpetual virginity has zero effect on Jesus' ability to redeem us from sin on the cross. Catholics consider marriage a sacrament, yet one Catholic on here told me years ago that Mary was a sacred vessel that God used to bring His Son into the world and as such, she had to remain so, and not be given back to Joseph for "common use." So, since when is marriage, a sacrament in the RCC, "common usage" between a husband and wife? If it is a holy sacrament?

Nowhere does the Bible refer to Mary as the new Eve or ark of the New Covenant. Nowhere. Not even a hint. But even if it did teach such things, that still would not preclude Mary and Joseph having children together in the bonds of holy and lawful matrimony, which is blessed by God since Adam and Eve.

There is no reason in the world that, after Jesus was born, and her period of purification was finished, Mary and Joseph could not have resumed a normal, married life, and joyfully raised up more children together, children of Joseph's body. I think God graciously gave them back to each other, blessing both of them with more children for their humble obedience.
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Well scripture does say until. That is a big word.

mtt 1:25

But he did not consummate their marriage until she gave birth to a son. And he gave him the name Jesus.
 
Bob Carabbio said:
It's also TOTALLY PHONY, as are all the phony "Titles" and attributes the Roman Catholic church has loaded on to her to synthesize their adaptation of the goddess Diana into their "blessed Virgin" thing.

The REAL Mary (Jesus' mom), was NOT:
Immaculately conceived,
Perpetually Virgin,
Ever Sinless,
Assumed into heaven,
And isn't our "Agent" to arm-twist her Son into doing what we want since "Jesus won't say "NO" to his mom".

The Catholics would be 1000 miles closer to the truth, if they'd just TRASH all that Mariology garbage, and pay some attention to what the Bible says about her - AND HIM.
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Short and bluntly to the point, as always, Bob! Thanks! :)
 
Bonnie said:
Short and bluntly to the point, as always, Bob! Thanks! :)
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It's all about hopefully planting DOUBT about Catholic fantasies, and suggesting the remedy, like the Bereans who didn't take Paul's word for anything - UNTIL they checked it out in the Scriptures (Acts 17:10-12). That's one reason the Roman Catholics want to DESTROY the Scriptures as the primary source of the truth, and eat their lies WHOLE without questioning them.
 
Lastdaysbeliever said:
To what end? Why must she be an "ever-virgin"? What is the Rcc achieving in this dogma?
Click to expand...
This could be deeply psychological. The Church has always praised virginity and such a designation coming from a celibate clergy could be because she is the only woman in their lives. I don't know what the Church achieves with this dogma, it just is what it is.
 
Lastdaysbeliever said:
What exactly does the dogma of Mary, the mother of Jesus, as "ever-virgin" accomplish? What exactly is the Rcc trying to advance with this demand on its laity to embrace and further declare and deny Mary had other children? To what end?
Click to expand...
The theologian Fr John Switzer explains it thus...

Scholars of early Christianity are in agreement that interest in the mother of Jesus was mostly initiated by the need to clarify the church’s teachings about the nature of Christ, his relationship with God, and the salvation Christ accomplished. Through Mary the fullness of Christ’s genuine humanity was guaranteed, in opposition to those who argued that Jesus only appeared to be human.

As christology continued to develop, new insights were drawn from St. Paul’s understanding of Christ as the New Adam who completes and perfects creation (1 Cor. 15). A natural correlation was seen between Jesus and Mary, with the latter being understood as the New Eve by second-century theologians like St. Justin Martyr and St. Irenaeus of Lyons. While some early teachers understood Mary as less than perfect, even arguing that she could be ambitious and doubtful, others argued for her sanctification or consecration to God even prior to her birth. Similar ideas abounded for St. John the Baptist, whose conception was celebrated as a feast even before that of Mary.

Doctrinal development in the West, supported by pious fervor, eventually led to Mary’s conception being promulgated as “immaculate” by Pope Pius IX in 1854. The intention was to signify that she had been preserved from all stain of sin (the Latin word for stain being macula) by a unique and singular act of God, based upon the redemptive merits of Christ’s future. In the Roman Catholic Church, the liturgical feast of Mary’s conception, celebrated on December 8th, became the celebration of her “immaculate conception.” Mary is considered sinless in the Orthodox Church as well, though her conception is not described as immaculate because of Eastern hesitancy concerning Western ideas about original sin.

The belief in Mary’s assumption into heaven probably evolved from the tendency in early Christianity to describe her life in ways similar to that of her son. By the fifth century the end of her life was celebrated in various places in a feast of her dormition, or “falling asleep.” In an interesting parallel to Jesus, Thomas the apostle doubts her passing until seeing her empty tomb, from which she has been assumed into glory. Eastern Christans tend to think of her assumption as occurring after her passing, while Western Christians usually understand her passing and assumption as a unified reality.

In 1950 the dogma of the Assumption was declared by Pope Pius XII as a singular gift to Mary and as an anticipation of the general resurrection of believers. Perhaps it is best understood as a dogma of hope extended to all Christians who strive to be faithful to Christ and who embrace his resurrection as their own. The final chapter of Lumen Gentium describes Mary as the most faithful disciple of Jesus. By extension, her fate represents our own longing for life without end.
 
Stella1000 said:
As christology continued to develop, new insights were drawn from St. Paul’s understanding of Christ as the New Adam who completes and perfects creation (1 Cor. 15). A natural correlation was seen between Jesus and Mary, with the latter being understood as the New Eve by second-century theologians like St. Justin Martyr and St. Irenaeus of Lyons.
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That's sick. More indication that "forethought" and "the Church of Rome" are complete strangers.
 
Lastdaysbeliever said:
What exactly does the dogma of Mary, the mother of Jesus, as "ever-virgin" accomplish? What exactly is the Rcc trying to advance with this demand on its laity to embrace and further declare and deny Mary had other children? To what end?
Click to expand...
it is the truth and not just a man-made dogma. both christians, in the east and west, as well as leading protestant reformers believed that this dogma is taught in the bible. your questions would be meaningful only if the dogma is false.
 
ramcam2 said:
it is the truth and not just a man-made dogma. both christians, in the east and west, as well as leading protestant reformers believed that this dogma is taught in the bible. your questions would be meaningful only if the dogma is false.
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No it is not the truth, most of it comes from the fake POJ and it is totally man made. The apostles didn't believe it. They are the right example.
 
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