The RCC teaches are refuted by scripture

balshan said:
I agree. Mormons also have baptism don't they?
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As well as bishops and priests! ?
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But what does the prophet Isaiah say?
Isa 64:6 [ULB] For we have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a menstrual rag. We have all withered like leaves; our iniquities, like the wind, carry us away.

So no matter how many "good deeds" we do, it ain't good enough.

--Rich
"Esse quam videri"
 
RiJoRi said:
As well as bishops and priests! ?
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But what does the prophet Isaiah say?
Isa 64:6 [ULB] For we have all become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a menstrual rag. We have all withered like leaves; our iniquities, like the wind, carry us away.

So no matter how many "good deeds" we do, it ain't good enough.

--Rich
"Esse quam videri"
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Excellent quote. Oh the prophets always know how to make a point, Isaiah is very clear about works based salvation.
 
Bonnie said:
I did not ask you about the Matthew and Romans verses, but the Luke 7 verses: what did Jesus tell the woman actually saved her? I bolded it. To make it easy to see.

What did Jesus say saved the woman?
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Her faith - she washed his feet with her tears and wiped them dry with her hair and anointed them with her ointment.
 
balshan said:
You are the only one who adds the word alone. It is your beef, you find it as it is you who adds it. I have been asking for thread after thread for you to answer what works save. You hide from it and never answer. You show a lack of knowledge of your own beliefs. Name the works that you believe save or don't mention them again because you don't know of any saving works??????

Alone is your add on. As RCs say the word trinity is not in scripture, is that what you see when you read Eph, you see the word alone.

Matt 25:32-46

32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 “Then the King will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.’

37 “Then the righteous will answer him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?’

40 “The King will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers and sisters of mine, you did for me.’

41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46 “Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”

Yep the RCC will be with the goats. The list of things like feeding the poor do not save the people at all. These are things that saved people do, they do them because God has changed them.

Please highlight the verse that says these works save a person. I mean we can find atheists who do those things but are not saved.
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Interesting I am still waiting for a certain poster to tell us what saves those who do charity and the others who do charity and are not saved. I mean we know that there are atheist and other religions that do charity and who will not be saved. What is the difference between the two? Why are some saved and others not?
 
dingoling. said:
Her faith - she washed his feet with her tears and wiped them dry with her hair and anointed them with her ointment.
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Yes, her faith. Thank you. Now--did she do those things you listed IN faith in Jesus, or outside of faith in Him?
 
dingoling. said:
What in the world did this come from? In faith, outside of faith????
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Oh, good grief...."outside of faith" just means NOT done in faith in Jesus Christ. In other words, in disbelief. But if you find the question too difficult I will reword it: did the woman do these things for Jesus because she had faith in Him? OR did she do these things for Him in disbelief in Him?

What is so hard about this question?
 
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Bonnie said:
Oh, good grief...."outside of faith" just means NOT done in faith in Jesus Christ. In other words, an unbeliever. IN faith means being a believer of Jesus Christ.

Now, suppose you answer my simple question: did the woman do all of those things for Jesus in or by faith in Him, or in disbelief of Him? (Is that better?)
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Well if you look at the passage it appears to be obvious that her faith was in Christ.
 
dingoling. said:
It is not there.
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Neither is Mary's EC and PV, not a hint, but Catholics believe and teach them anyway.

Doing something in faith in Jesus Christ just means doing something because one believes in Jesus Christ. Doing something while not believing in Jesus Christ is doing something outside of faith in Him.

What is so difficult to understand about that? OR is this just a diversionary tactic to keep from answering the question?
 
I mean let us simplify this.

Heb 10:39

But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.

eph 2:8+

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

Luke 7:50
and He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace

John 3:16

for God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life

Rom 5:1

therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Rom 3:28

For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law

By the way Matt 25 is referring to works of law. Charity is a commandment in both testaments. So what makes the difference that some are saved and do works of charity and others will not be saved even though they do works of charity.

Deut 15;7+

“If among you, one of your brothers should become poor, in any of your towns within your land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart or shut your hand against your poor brother, but you shall open your hand to him and lend him sufficient for his need, whatever it may be. Take care lest there be an unworthy thought in your heart and you say, ‘The seventh year, the year of release is near,’ and your eye look grudgingly on your poor brother, and you give him nothing, and he cry to the Lord against you, and you be guilty of sin. You shall give to him freely, and your heart shall not be grudging when you give to him, because for this the Lord your God will bless you in all your work and in all that you undertake. For there will never cease to be poor in the land. Therefore I command you, ‘You shall open wide your hand to your brother, to the needy and to the poor, in your land.’

Hebrews 11 is clear the people in the OT saved by faith.

3 by faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command

4 By faith Abel brought God a better offering than Cain did

5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life,

7 By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen,

8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place

13 All these people were still living by faith when they died

The whole chapter continues that it was by faith, that they then went and followed God and what God wanted.

By faith scriptures are clear.
 
Bonnie said:
Neither is Mary's EC and PV, not a hint, but Catholics believe and teach them anyway.

Doing something in faith in Jesus Christ just means doing something because one believes in Jesus Christ. Doing something while not believing in Jesus Christ is doing something outside of faith in Him.

What is so difficult to understand about that? OR is this just a diversionary tactic to keep from answering the question?
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I see the EC and PV in scripture.
 
balshan said:
I mean let us simplify this.

Heb 10:39

But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the preserving of the soul.

eph 2:8+

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.

Luke 7:50
and He said to the woman, “Your faith has saved you; go in peace

John 3:16

for God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life

Rom 5:1

therefore, since we have been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Rom 3:28

For we hold that one is justified by faith apart from works of the law

By the way Matt 25 is referring to works of law. Charity is a commandment in both testaments. So what makes the difference that some are saved and do works of charity and others will not be saved even though they do works of charity.

Deut 15;7+

“If among you, one of your brothers should become poor, in any of your towns within your land that the Lord your God is giving you, you shall not harden your heart or shut your hand against your poor brother, but you shall open your hand to him and lend him sufficient for his need, whatever it may be. Take care lest there be an unworthy thought in your heart and you say, ‘The seventh year, the year of release is near,’ and your eye look grudgingly on your poor brother, and you give him nothing, and he cry to the Lord against you, and you be guilty of sin. You shall give to him freely, and your heart shall not be grudging when you give to him, because for this the Lord your God will bless you in all your work and in all that you undertake. For there will never cease to be poor in the land. Therefore I command you, ‘You shall open wide your hand to your brother, to the needy and to the poor, in your land.’

Hebrews 11 is clear the people in the OT saved by faith.

3 by faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command

4 By faith Abel brought God a better offering than Cain did

5 By faith Enoch was taken from this life,

7 By faith Noah, when warned about things not yet seen,

8 By faith Abraham, when called to go to a place

13 All these people were still living by faith when they died

The whole chapter continues that it was by faith, that they then went and followed God and what God wanted.

By faith scriptures are clear.
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Nowhere does it say faith alone.
 
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