The RCC teaches are refuted by scripture

mica said:
hey - you claimed to have read scripture many more times than i have! search for it yourself! there's an online topical bible. searching in it helps in learning it.

yw
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dingoling. said:
It is not there.
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so you gave up and didn't try an alternate search? well, I don't know any believers who wouldn't know what it means anyway - maybe a new born babe in Christ. you show that you don't know or understand basic scriptures, but also that you don't even attempt to understand them.

I spend a good amount of time searching out a verse (word / phrase) when I don't understand something - numerous searches and alternate sources. Eventually if I don't find the answer, then I turn it over to the HS.
 
balshan said:
Not the topic but works do not save a person, do they? Hebrews 11 is clear by faith they did things. By faith. By faith. By faith. Without faith what????

Without faith you have nothing. Without faith there is no salvation. Without faith there is no heaven.
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Without works faith is what?
 
dingoling. said:
Without works faith is what?
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Faith is a gift and God gives us the gift. So faith is everything, faith is perfect. Faith means that God changes our mind and hearts, without it, we have nothing. You can work until you are blue in the face, your works are meaningless.

Faith means we are changed, not what we do but what God does. It is God that does those works through us, they are not our works at all. You seem to think you can earn salvation and you are not right.
 
balshan said:
Faith is a gift and God gives us the gift. So faith is everything, faith is perfect. Faith means that God changes our mind and hearts, without it, we have nothing. You can work until you are blue in the face, your works are meaningless.

Faith means we are changed, not what we do but what God does. It is God that does those works through us, they are not our works at all. You seem to think you can earn salvation and you are not right.
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Faith is dead without works, at least that is what God says.
 
dingoling. said:
Faith is dead without works, at least that is what God says.
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Christ has died to make us right with God. Instead through Rcc rituals and works of charity, Rc's are trying to make themselves good enough to gain God’s favor by performing these customs and rituals, but that is not God’s way of salvation. Christ gives to those who trust in him everything they are trying to get by “works” He ends all of that.

The apostles preached, salvation that comes from trusting Christ is already within easy reach of each of us; in fact, it is as near as our own hearts and mouths. For if you tell others with your own mouth that Jesus Christ is your Lord and believe in your own heart that God has raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is by believing in his heart that a man becomes right with God; and with his mouth he tells others of his faith, confirming his salvation

People find it easier to do everything other than to trust God with their lives, and the salvation HE alone provides. Pride says... we can get to heaven all by ourselves, instead of trusting God. When a person's faith is in a church or placed in something else including religion, instead of God. All of his /her works are nothing more than a false form of religiousness and piety. Not only is the faith dead, but so is the works.
 
balshan said:
RCs ignoring scripture harms their knowledge of the gospel. It is clear from Galatians we are not to follow those who teach another gospel. Yet that is what the RCC does, it teaches salvation through Mary and the RCC. They take their eyes of Jesus and place them on Mary and the RCC.

Gal 1:8

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.

2 Cor 11:4

For if someone comes and proclaims another Jesus than the one we proclaimed, or if you receive a different spirit from the one you received, or if you accept a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it readily enough.

The only way to check out if the gospel message is the same as what the apostles taught is to read His word without add ons. Why do RCs downgrade scripture and ignore these warnings?

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The is too funny. We could say that the nCCs ignore scripture too:

- a person is justified by faith alone and not by works. Scripture says, "....a person is justified by works and not by faith alone."

- the bread and wine are not the body and blood of Christ. Scripture says, "...this is my body....this is my blood of the covenant...."

This is even funnier in light of the fact that the nCCs claim that scripture alone is their final/sole authority.
 
Bonnie said:
Yes. But we do those deeds because we are saved. Not to get saved. Therein lies the difference.
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dingoling. said:
Those works are part of the salvation process.
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no, until one is saved they have no 'good works' in Him. those who are not saved might do 'good works' (such as feed the poor), but that is not a 'good work' in Him, but is a good work of this world. those of the world look at those works as 'good works', but God does not - they are not done in Him.

until one is saved they have no 'good works' in Him. If the person is not in Him, then neither are his/her works in (or of) Him.

salvation is not a process (tho the HS can be drawing them to Christ over a period of time). It can happen in the blink of the eye. Growing in Christ will be a life long process.

dingoling. said:
Jesus came to save us from our sins.
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how did He do that? why did He do that?
 
dingoling. said:
Faith is dead without works, at least that is what God says.
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Well what does that mean to you??? The obvious misunderstanding of a verse shown by an RC, no surprise. That shows because of a free gift, we are changed, that is visibly seen because of what we do. It is not works that save, it is not our works at all, it is the work of God in us that saves.

I have always loved the book of James and it is a shame to see how RCs butcher it.

James 2

22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did.

If we continue to act the same then we have not been transformed. Our actions reveal a changed heart, mind and a transformed life, this only happens because God works in us.

The good we do is to reveal Jesus to the world. I don't think RC leaders are doing this by their evil fruit and their non exposure of sin.

Titus 2

10 and not to steal from them, but to show that they can be fully trusted, so that in every way they will make the teaching about God our Savior attractive.

11 For the grace of God has appeared that offers salvation to all people. 12 It teaches us to say “No” to ungodliness and worldly passions, and to live self-controlled, upright and godly lives in this present age, 13 while we wait for the blessed hope—the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior, Jesus Christ, 14 who gave himself for us to redeem us from all wickedness and to purify for himself a people that are his very own, eager to do what is good.'

Titus 3

3 At one time we too were foolish, disobedient, deceived and enslaved by all kinds of passions and pleasures. We lived in malice and envy, being hated and hating one another. 4 But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, 5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life. 8 This is a trustworthy saying. And I want you to stress these things, so that those who have trusted in God may be careful to devote themselves to doing what is good. These things are excellent and profitable for everyone.

It is clear we are not saved because of righteouness things we have done at all. Works do not save us at all.
 
Bonnie said:
Did you understand what I meant about doing something in faith and outside of faith? I didn't think it was that difficult a concept to grasp.
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It is so simple to understand. It is simple to those who have the eyes to see.

Titus 3

5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.
 
dingoling. said:
Those works are part of the salvation process. Jesus came to save us from our sins.
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Wrong. They show we have been saved. The process is complete and God has changed us and we do the works because of His work. There it is the RCs wanting the glory that belongs to God and now I will use you favourite word ALONE. It is God alone who does the work.
 
dingoling. said:
The is too funny. We could say that the nCCs ignore scripture too:

- a person is justified by faith alone and not by works. Scripture says, "....a person is justified by works and not by faith alone."

- the bread and wine are not the body and blood of Christ. Scripture says, "...this is my body....this is my blood of the covenant...."

This is even funnier in light of the fact that the nCCs claim that scripture alone is their final/sole authority.
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No that is not ignoring scripture, that is reading it in context and with the teaching of the HS, not following the lies of men. It is not funny at all, and it is sad that you believe that to be funny. It is sad because it shows ears that are closed and eyes that are blind and a mind that is shut to God's word and truth.

You quote scripture out of context and this makes you think you can earn your salvation.

scripture says works do not save:

titus 3

5 he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit, 6 whom he poured out on us generously through Jesus Christ our Savior, 7 so that, having been justified by his grace, we might become heirs having the hope of eternal life.

Yes when Jesus says this is symbolic and you say scripture says, if we follow your logic Peter is satan, scripture says that. If you read things out of context then you misunderstand. Scripture says Jesus is a door, a light symbolic not literal.

All you do every post is prove you can read scripture, what is it 49 x , and still not understand it.
 
balshan said:
Wrong. They show we have been saved. The process is complete and God has changed us and we do the works because of His work. There it is the RCs wanting the glory that belongs to God and now I will use you favourite word ALONE. It is God alone who does the work.
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well, God couldn't do it without them - according to their religion.
 
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