If Jesus is 'God' because he was called "son of God", "lord" and received prostrations then why not David?

[GeneZ]

I could care less about the apostate Stephen.

Where's your Temple? Where's your sin?

Jews stopped sinning 2000 years ago? the atonement of the Cross?

What happened to all those Jews for 2000 years who rejected God's Son?

I am not the apostate. But, what does that matter? You would still scream "CRUCIFY!"

Wouldn't you?

That was that easy for many Jews when apostate Israel came in contact with the Messiah.


Genesis 3:15? Have you read it carefully?

It tells us that the prophesied Messiah who would crush Satan's head. That he will come in "human form."

And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”


Jewish custom never referred to an offspring as "a seed of a woman." In genealogies it was always spoken of as the seed of the man.

That was prophesied because the female ovum is not the carrier of the genetic defect of the sin nature of man. The male sperm is the carrier. Adam was the one who brought sin into the world through procreation.

By Mary being impregnated by God providing the needed perfect DNA to fertilize an ovum? In that manner Jesus would be given a body without defect. Just like a sacrificial lamb was required to be without physical defect. Which symbolized a sinless nature.

Mary did not produce a sinless body because she was a virgin. Being a virgin was to be as 'a sign' that no fallen man had caused her to become pregnant.

Ironically, God could have chosen some town whore to provide a body for the soul of Jesus. For even her ovum would not have been carrying the sin nature defect.

Its the male sperm that transfers the sin nature.

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, ​

and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned.. Romans 5:12​

Though the woman sinned first? And, she was the first one to become fallen?
It was through the man Adam that sin entered the world via his sperm in procreation!
The woman's ovum does not carry the defect of the sin nature!



And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”

When man fell he took on the image of Satan. Man became his "seed" in that manner. Its why we need laws in the world to keep man in line.

grace and peace ..........

 

[GeneZ]

So why are you trying?

Because this is not a private conversation.

 

[Jewjitzu]

Where's your Temple? Where's your sin?

Jews stopped sinning 2000 years ago? the atonement of the Cross?

What happened to all those Jews for 2000 years who rejected God's Son?

I am not the apostate. But, what does that matter? You would still scream "CRUCIFY!"

Wouldn't you?

That was that easy for many Jews when apostate Israel came in contact with the Messiah.


Genesis 3:15? Have you read it carefully?

It tells us that the prophesied Messiah who would crush Satan's head. That he will come in "human form."

And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”


Jewish custom never referred to an offspring as "a seed of a woman." In genealogies it was always spoken of as the seed of the man.

That was prophesied because the female ovum is not the carrier of the genetic defect of the sin nature of man. The male sperm is the carrier. Adam was the one who brought sin into the world through procreation.

Rotfl...

It's ridiculous to think that this verse refers to a miracle where a woman conceives miraculously without a man.

The woman isn't mentioned as a virgin. But more importantly, there are several references to seed of a woman, descendant, zera, that are in Tanakh.

Gen 16:10, 24:60; Lev 22:13; Num 5:28; 1 Sam 2:20; Ruth 4:12; 1 Sam 1:11.

By Mary being impregnated by God providing the needed perfect DNA to fertilize an ovum?

Mary carries Adam's DNA.

In that manner Jesus would be given a body without defect. Just like a sacrificial lamb was required to be without physical defect. Which symbolized a sinless nature.

You haven't looked at his genealogy.

Mary did not produce a sinless body because she was a virgin.

Did you read what you said?

Being a virgin was to be as 'a sign' that no fallen man had caused her to become pregnant.

That's not a visible sign.

Ironically, God could have chosen some town whore to provide a body for the soul of Jesus. For even her ovum would not have been carrying the sin nature defect.

Its the male sperm that transfers the sin nature.

Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, ​

and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned.. Romans 5:12​

Though the woman sinned first? And, she was the first one to become fallen?
It was through the man Adam that sin entered the world via his sperm in procreation!
The woman's ovum does not carry the defect of the sin nature!

Rotfl... yeah, right. That's why Mary offered sin sacrifices as required in Leviticus 12:1-8, Luke 2:21-24.

And I will put enmity
Between you and the woman,
And between your seed and her Seed;
He shall bruise your head,
And you shall bruise His heel.”

When man fell he took on the image of Satan. Man became his "seed" in that manner. Its why we need laws in the world to keep man in line.

grace and peace ..........

You've said this all before last year when you dropped communication with me.

No reason to refute garbage again.

 

[Jewjitzu]

Because this is not a private conversation.

You asked me personally. So, I told you there's no reason to continue with me.

Satan, be gone....

 

[GeneZ]

You've said this all before last year when you dropped communication with me.

No reason to refute garbage again.

Translation....

You are still stumped. And continue to bluff.

Your sins are still on your head until you do as the Law of Moses tells you to do.

Never thought of this before.

Must be frustrating being Jewish... Studying, and understanding the requirements of the Law....

For it makes you appear as if God has left you out to hang on a clothes line, unwashed and dirty. And, you have the way?

The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially ​

unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. How much more, then, will the blood of ​

Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences ​

from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God! Hebrews 9:13-14​

Without it? You are doing 'dead works.'

cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God! ​

​

You do not know what you are doing.

You are attacking those who would have hid you if you had lived in Nazi Germany.


..............................

 

[GeneZ]

Satan, be gone....

By who's authority do you say that? Even rabbis can't cast out demons.

 

[Jewjitzu]

Translation....

You are still stumped. And continue to bluff.

I was never stumped. I was just hoping you'd stick to your word and leave.

I changed my mind from not responding when I saw how ridiculous your post was.

Your sins are still on your head until you do as the Law of Moses tells you to do.

No, confession and prayer suffices for this time, Hosea 14:2, Hosea 3:4-5. Read 1 Kings 8 as well.

Never thought of this before.

An original thought for you? Wow.

Must be frustrating being Jewish... Studying, and understanding the requirements of the Law....

For it makes you appear as if God has left you out to hang on a clothes line, unwashed and dirty. And, you have the way?

I'm not worried what you think. BTW, I would expect you to be a mensch and admit you were wrong on Gen 3:15 and your blurb. If you need help with verses, let me know.

The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially ​

unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. How much more, then, will the blood of ​

Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences ​

from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God! Hebrews 9:13-14​

Without it? You are doing 'dead works.'

cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death, so that we may serve the living God! ​

Really? Have you seen how Christians keep sinning? Look to Germany, Poland, Chek, etc. America, and elsewhere.

​

You do not know what you are doing.

You are attacking those who would have hid you if you had lived in Nazi Germany.


..............................

Post in thread 'If Jesus is 'God' because he was called "son of God", "lord" and received prostrations then why not David?' https://forums.carm.org/threads/if-...trations-then-why-not-david.10560/post-831362

No Christians here have done anything for me and family. Especially you.

 

[Jewjitzu]

By who's authority do you say that? Even rabbis can't cast out demons.

I can tell you didn't learn much in Hebrew school. What a flunky. Satan is Hebrew for adversary.

Rabbis have done more than you think.

 

[GeneZ]

I can tell you didn't learn much in Hebrew school. What a flunky. Satan is Hebrew for adversary.

Rabbis have done more than you think.

You are making a mountain out of a mohel.

 

[GeneZ]

Rabbis have done more than you think.

When Judaism was the active faith in the ancient world? ... yes. When God put Judaism on hold? Shut down the Temple? No longer so.

But, God will revive Judaism after He is done gathering His chosen in the Church to be the Bride for His Son.

Active Judaism God will return once more and be active faith on earth during the Millennial reign of the Messiah.
Jerusalem then shall be made into the capital of the new world.

Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘In those days ten men from all the nations will grasp the garment of a Jew, ​

saying, “Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.”’​

​

Zechariah 8:23​

.... Ani lo yodeya E'vrit.

I used to live on Beta Karem street in Jerusalem for the summer 1968. Attended the American College in Jerusalem. Since then, I found no motivation to learn any more Hebrew.

 

[Jewjitzu]

You are making a mountain out of a mohel.

Rotfl... kind of like you automatically associating satan with an evil spirit.

 

[Jewjitzu]

When Judaism was the active faith in the ancient world? ... yes. When God put Judaism on hold? Shut down the Temple? No longer so.

You need to be more connected to the Jewish community to know.

But, God will revive Judaism after He is done gathering His chosen in the Church to be the Bride for His Son.

Gentiles, if they're truly godly, will be grafted as in Isaiah 56:1-8.

Active Judaism God will return once more and be active faith on earth during the Millennial reign of the Messiah.

It's been here.

Jerusalem then shall be made into the capital of the new world.

Yes, still to come, Isaiah 66.

Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘In those days ten men from all the nations will grasp the garment of a Jew, ​

saying, “Let us go with you, for we have heard that God is with you.”’​

​

Zechariah 8:23​

Yes, Gentiles will follow after the Jews because we know the true God.

.... Ani lo yodeya E'vrit.

I used to live on Beta Karem street in Jerusalem for the summer 1968. Attended the American College in Jerusalem. Since then, I found no motivation to learn any more Hebrew.

Sadly, it shows. It would help you.

 

[GeneZ]

Rotfl... kind of like you automatically associating satan with an evil spirit.

An evil angel.....

 

[GeneZ]

You need to be more connected to the Jewish community to know.

I grew up in the Jewish community. My father was one of the founders of a local synagogue I attended. I don't know what you are talking about. Neither do I think you do.

Now. I said...


When Judaism was the active faith in the ancient world? ... yes. When God put Judaism on hold? Shut down the Temple? No longer so.

Judaism in the ancient world was more than just a cultural phenomena. It was the only nation on earth that God made the people accountable to Himself and his rules. His presence was in the Temple's holy of holies. Jews do not have that anymore today. Nothing is active with God. It is all become about tradition and ritual. You can not know where you are going to go when you die.

On the other hand.,... people who genuinely believed in Jesus? Many have various encounters with God in ways to know He is real. They believed because God makes them able to believe by giving them something to truly believe. Its not wishful thinking. . Its not something you make up your mind to learn the rules to conform to and then join. When it is a real knowing of God its not religion. Judaism today is religion. One with exciting Bible stories that made me wonder why Jews in the past had an ongoing active relationship with Jehovah. But, not today anymore. Its become a religion. Yet, one with excellent credentials unlike the world religions we see.

 

[Jewjitzu]

I grew up in the Jewish community. My father was one of the founders of a local synagogue I attended. I don't know what you are talking about. Neither do I think you do.

Now. I said...


When Judaism was the active faith in the ancient world? ... yes. When God put Judaism on hold? Shut down the Temple? No longer so.

Judaism in the ancient world was more than just a cultural phenomena. It was the only nation on earth that God made the people accountable to Himself and his rules. His presence was in the Temple's holy of holies. Jews do not have that anymore today. Nothing is active with God. It is all become about tradition and ritual. You can not know where you are going to go when you die.

On the other hand.,... people who genuinely believed in Jesus? Many have various encounters with God in ways to know He is real. They believed because God makes them able to believe by giving them something to truly believe. Its not wishful thinking. . Its not something you make up your mind to learn the rules to conform to and then join. When it is a real knowing of God its not religion. Judaism today is religion. One with exciting Bible stories that made me wonder why Jews in the past had an ongoing active relationship with Jehovah. But, not today anymore. Its become a religion. Yet, one with excellent credentials unlike the world religions we see.

Judaism isn't on hold. People in Judaism also have active miracles in their lives on a daily basis. We know God because we constantly strive to do His will, His Torah.

There isn't a once saved always saved idea to Judaism, as one can be cut-off based on how one lives. One must be committed to the end, continuing to walk with Him. There isn't an idea that once you fulfill the commandments for one day, you're done with them. The next day brings its own challenges.

Where do you think Christianity got the idea that the thief on the cross got saved at the last minute? Or that you can lose it all at the last moment like Ananias and Sapphira? Ezekiel 18.

It's ironic that you and Christianity teach that you're filled with the Holy Spirit, and yet each follows their own ways (God isn't a God of confusion), and not the way of the spirit of holiness, Zechariah 7:12, Ezekiel 36:26-27. The idea that the Holy Spirit wasn't active in Tanakh like it is for NT believers is false. You just have to understand that references to the spirit of holiness (ruach hakodesh) isn't a person, but an active and willing abiding by the Torah in the lives of individuals. I seriously doubt any Christian today has the spirit like David, or any other Tanakh prophet did.

BTW, when are you going to admit you were wrong concerning Genesis 3:15 and the seed of a woman?

 

[GeneZ]

Judaism isn't on hold. People in Judaism also have active miracles in their lives on a daily basis. We know God because we constantly strive to do His will, His Torah.

You CAN NOT do his will.

For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement
for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life."

Leviticus 17:11​

Now... give me your "spin."

It will be BS. The Cross was the final sacrifice. You will spin, I know. Go ahead.

I don't even want to argue on this point. There is a movement in Israel today to try to rebuild the Temple. Animals are being farmed for the sacrifices as demanded in the Law of Moses. They know what is required. You just spin in denial of the atonement God did provide once and for all in Jesus.

After he sinned? Adam blamed the woman the Lord had given him for his denial.

Your religious spinners have you loaded to the gills with rationalizations. All fake interpretations do. Like the media lies for corrupt politicians they prefer.

You still have the kosher butcher pour off the blood for it to be kosher.
But, Lev 17:11? Nahhh! Not needed.


Your exhilaration (pride) comes from how clever you can be in making up a spin to get around the truth.

 

[Jewjitzu]

You CAN NOT do his will.

For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement
for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood that makes atonement for one’s life."

Leviticus 17:11​

Now... give me your "spin."

Jesus didn't do God's will either. Atonement on the altar.

All sins don't require sacrifices. Some involve monetary payments. Jesus didn't account for that.

It will be BS. The Cross was the final sacrifice. You will spin, I know. Go ahead.

Human sacrifices aren't allowable. They're idolatrous. And Micah the prophet clearly says even a first born doesn't cut it.

I don't even want to argue on this point.

Because you can't.

There is a movement in Israel today to try to rebuild the Temple. Animals are being farmed for the sacrifices as demanded in the Law of Moses. They know what is required. You just spin in denial of the atonement God did provide once and for all in Jesus.

See above.

After he sinned? Adam blamed the woman the Lord had given him for his denial.

And the woman blamed the serpent. So what?

Your religious spinners have you loaded to the gills with rationalizations. All fake interpretations do. Like the media lies for corrupt politicians they prefer.

Kind of like your born again experience?

You still have the kosher butcher pour off the blood for it to be kosher.
But, Lev 17:11? Nahhh! Not needed.

I gave you the prophet Hosea to explain things. It's funny you try to argue with this verse when Jesus never made it to the altar in the temple in Jerusalem.

Your exhilaration (pride) comes from how clever you can be in making up a spin to get around the truth.

Psalm 119:160
All your words are true; all your righteous laws are eternal.

 

[GeneZ]

Jesus didn't do God's will either. Atonement on the altar.

Come back here.... YOU are not doing God's will. The Law of Moses REQUIRES animal sacrifices on the altar for your SINS. ..


Don't sidetrack. I will explain what you fail to understand after you explain how you, as a Jew, are fulfilling the Law of Moses.

 

[GeneZ]

Human sacrifices aren't allowable. They're idolatrous. And Micah the prophet clearly says even a first born doesn't cut it.

But, in Jeremiah's day the Jews were sacrificing their children.

No human sacrifice because all humans are not without sin. Unacceptable substitute for man.

What made Jesus acceptable to the Father was that Jesus had no sin nature and never sinned to acquire one.
Only Jesus could do that!

The animal sacrifices in the Law of Moses were only symbolic of the true atonement they were all waiting for... the animal sacrifices were training tools to teach Jews about the principles of sin and atonement. That is why Jesus came to the Jews. For if anyone was to understand the atonement for sin it was the Jews who were surrounded by an amoral pagan world.

God used representative symbolism all the time. Just look at the foods used in the Seder meal.

Once again... in Jeremiah's day the Jews were sacrificing their children.

 

[Jewjitzu]

Come back here.... YOU are not doing God's will. The Law of Moses REQUIRES animal sacrifices on the altar for your SINS. ..

Please tell me if all sins require a sacrifice?

How did Daniel and his generation manage without a temple and sacrifices?

Don't sidetrack. I will explain what you fail to understand after you explain how you, as a Jew, are fulfilling the Law of Moses.

No sidetracking. You brought up Leviticus 17:11. Jesus didn't fulfill the requirements.