"In Christ" Question for Calvinists.

christ_undivided said:
I speak up about evil. That is what I'm doing here.

Must be nice to always do what pleases the Father.......

Wait...... That was Jesus. Not you.
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I never said it was about me.
christ_undivided said:
I'll leave you to chat with your friend. BTW, someone who doesn't know Piper isn't much of a scholar and certainly doesn't look now Calvinism.
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And neither is it about Mr. Piper. Unless someone tells me that Mr Piper understands Koine Greek properly, I am not going to read anything from him. My policy is to stick with teachers who understand Koine Greek.
 
Synergy said:
Did you repent before you received the gift of the Holy Spirit as per Acts 2:38?
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Of course.

Synergy said:
To maintain your election you must be "in Christ". Eph 4:1 declares that God chose you "in Him". In other words, your election is conditional on you being "in Christ".
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We aren't the ones who "maintain [ ]our election".
The Shepherd is.
John 10:28-29.

Read your Bible.

Synergy said:
So it's not that you've been elected all your entire life. It's only when you're "in Christ" that you're saved (and elected Eph 1:4):
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God's people have been elect from before the foundation of the world, from the time our names were written in the Lamb's book of life.

Synergy said:
(2 Tim 1:9) who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given us in Christ Jesus before the eternal times.
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Exactly.
Read your Bible.
 
Slyzr said:
Rock, paper scissors?
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It was only 30 pieces of silver but due to inflation it's now 50.

But did you know In the Hebrew culture, thirty pieces of silver was not a lot of money. In fact, it was the exact price paid to the master of a slave if and when his slave was gored by an ox (Exodus 21:32). The slave’s death was compensated by the thirty pieces of silver. There are two other places in the Bible that specifically mention the amount of thirty pieces of silver, and they are directly linked.

Who knew?
 
Reformedguy said:
Sorry, it does not say election is conditional.
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It doesn't actually say the word "conditional" but it does say that you must be diligent to do the following:

(2Pe 1:5-9)
But also in this very thing, bringing in all diligence, filling out your faith with virtue, and with virtue, knowledge;
and with knowledge self-control, and with self-control, patience, and with patience, godliness,
and with godliness, brotherly kindness, and with brotherly kindness, love.
For if these things are in you and abound, they make you to be neither idle nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
For he in whom these things are not present is blind and cannot see afar off and has forgotten that he was purged from his sins in the past.

Notice the word "unfruitful" who are not diligent. What happens to those who are "unfruitful"?
Reformedguy said:
Notice in your proof text he calls them brothers. They are already elect.
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They are elect but they must be diligent to maintain their election which is only "in Christ". Eph 4:1 declares that God chose you "in Him". In other words, your election is conditional on you being "in Christ".
Reformedguy said:
This text is about maintenance.
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For you to better understand the word "maintenance/maintain":
  1. what happens if you don't maintain your car payments?
  2. what happens if you don't maintain your mortgage payments?
  3. what happens if you don't maintain your marriage vows?
  4. etc......?
What happens then?
 
Predestined said:
It was only 30 pieces of silver but due to inflation it's now 50.

But did you know In the Hebrew culture, thirty pieces of silver was not a lot of money. In fact, it was the exact price paid to the master of a slave if and when his slave was gored by an ox (Exodus 21:32). The slave’s death was compensated by the thirty pieces of silver. There are two other places in the Bible that specifically mention the amount of thirty pieces of silver, and they are directly linked.

Who knew?
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Wow .....

Ox's are big.

Do you they traided Oxes ..... and had there servants care for them.

Oh wiat .... you already said that.

Ya .... seems like an issue.

So is an Oxen gores a servant they get 30m pieces of silver, for their trouble.

What if they died from tending such.

A proper burial .... or recompense to the family of the deceasaed?

Excuse my misspelled words ....
 
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Slyzr said:
Wow .....

Ox's are big.

Do you they traided Oxes ..... and had there servants care for them.

Oh wiat .... you already said that.

Ya .... seems like an issue.

So is an Oxen gores a servant they get 30m pieces of silver, for their trouble.

What if they died from tending such.
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We don't talk about them dying while tending oxen as it makes it hard to get new recruits. Since you’re studying this ox tending, then at all times, in your encounters with people and responses to circumstances, you must not let wrong thoughts continue. If you cannot see through them, then the moment a wrong thought comes up you should quickly concentrate your mental energy to pull yourself away. If you always follow those thoughts and let them continue without a break, not only does this obstruct the tending of oxen, but it makes you out to be a man without wisdom.
 
Predestined said:
We don't talk about them dying while tending oxen as it makes it hard to get new recruits. Since you’re studying this ox tending, then at all times, in your encounters with people and responses to circumstances, you must not let wrong thoughts continue. If you cannot see through them, then the moment a wrong thought comes up you should quickly concentrate your mental energy to pull yourself away. If you always follow those thoughts and let them continue without a break, not only does this obstruct the tending of oxen, but it makes you out to be a man without wisdom.
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OK .....

Taking notes .... thanks ....

But wait ..... what if the the familly of the dearly departed "servant / slave" compalin about the goring to death thingy?

While their 'servant / slave' was under their 'caring'........ for the goring oxen that killed him?

Who is liable?
 
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Slyzr said:
OK .....

Taking notes .... thanks ....

But wait ..... what if the the familly of the dearly departed "servant / slave" compalin about the goring to death thingy?

While their 'servant / slave' was under their 'caring'........ for the goring oxen that killed him?

Who is liable?
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Hush money. Just make them go away.
 
Synergy said:
Did you repent before you received the gift of the Holy Spirit as per Acts 2:38?
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I didn't receive the Holy Spirit as per Acts 2:38.
I received the Holy Spirit as I repented and was being regenerated.
Synergy said:
To maintain your election you must be "in Christ". Eph 4:1 declares that God chose you "in Him". In other words, your election is conditional on you being "in Christ".
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When I was regenerated I was placed into Christ. Prior to the creation of the world God choose me to be placed into Christ during my life.
Synergy said:
All Gentiles across the world were not "in Christ" at one time but now they are "in Christ".
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I don't disagree.
 
Synergy said:
It doesn't actually say the word "conditional" but it does say that you must be diligent to do the following:

(2Pe 1:5-9)
But also in this very thing, bringing in all diligence, filling out your faith with virtue, and with virtue, knowledge;
and with knowledge self-control, and with self-control, patience, and with patience, godliness,
and with godliness, brotherly kindness, and with brotherly kindness, love.
For if these things are in you and abound, they make you to be neither idle nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
For he in whom these things are not present is blind and cannot see afar off and has forgotten that he was purged from his sins in the past.

Notice the word "unfruitful" who are not diligent. What happens to those who are "unfruitful"?

They are elect but they must be diligent to maintain their election which is only "in Christ". Eph 4:1 declares that God chose you "in Him". In other words, your election is conditional on you being "in Christ".

For you to better understand the word "maintenance/maintain":
  1. what happens if you don't maintain your car payments?
  2. what happens if you don't maintain your mortgage payments?
  3. what happens if you don't maintain your marriage vows?
  4. etc......?
What happens then?
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Well feel free to to fill in the word wherever you like.

Same thing as your other proof texts. It's written to believers. Their elect already. After all how can you be faithful to something your not part of to begin with?

Again, maintenance not admission.

Let's say I don't maintain my marriage vows, does that necessarily mean I am no longer married?

Your reasoning here is a little convoluted.
 
Slyzr said:
Ok ..... I'm listening.
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Here are eight great Bible verses about loving and caring for animals.

Proverbs 12:10 “Whoever is righteous has regard for the life of his beast, but the mercy of the wicked is cruel.”

This proverb is very clear. Whoever is righteous will have regard for the life or the care of their animals, whether they are pets or livestock. For those who are cruel to their pets or animals, God seems to indicate that the mercy of the wicked is no better than cruelty of the wicked compared to God’s mercy, but on the other hand, the mercy and care given to those who care properly for their animals is very pleasing in God’s sight. There are several who are animal rescuers who find homes for abandoned animals, even getting them fixed and receiving their shots. I find it interesting that the two people that I know who are animal rescuers are also kind and gentle with people, so the proverb is true that whoever has regard for their animals, or any animals, is righteous in God’s sight, however that doesn’t mean they can be saved by having regard for the life of animals, since our righteousness only comes from Jesus Christ (Acts 4:12; 2nd Cor 5:21).



Read more: https://www.whatchristianswanttokno...-loving-and-caring-for-animals/#ixzz7cQ6T3QEi
 
Synergy said:
Interesting. Do you oftentimes start your sentences with "what planet are you from?" with those who disagree with you? What other colorful language do you employ?

I'm just quoting the Bible, God's way. Here's the KJV's version of 1 Tim 4:1-3:

1Ti 4:1 But the Spirit expressly says that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and teachings of demons,
1Ti 4:2 speaking lies in hypocrisy, being seared in their own conscience,
1Ti 4:3 forbidding to marry, saying to abstain from foods which God has created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth.

Again, man has the ability to choose what's right or what's wrong. Our right choice is vital in our relationship with God, making the relationship synergistic. IOW, God's Grace is not irresistible.

You do not have superpowers to look into my being and tell me what I believe or don't believe.

Back to the OP: This is the scenario if we take it step by step:
  1. You were chosen by God "in Christ" before the foundation of the world (Eph 1:4), and then
  2. You were not "in Christ" (Eph 2:12, Rom 16:7) and
  3. Now you are "in Christ" (Eph 2:13, Rom 16:7).
Question for you: What caused you to transition from "in Christ" (Step 1) to NOT "in Christ" (Step 2)?
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Any cogent response yet ?
 
Synergy said:
It doesn't actually say the word "conditional" but it does say that you must be diligent to do the following:

(2Pe 1:5-9)
But also in this very thing, bringing in all diligence, filling out your faith with virtue, and with virtue, knowledge;
and with knowledge self-control, and with self-control, patience, and with patience, godliness,
and with godliness, brotherly kindness, and with brotherly kindness, love.
For if these things are in you and abound, they make you to be neither idle nor unfruitful in the knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.
For he in whom these things are not present is blind and cannot see afar off and has forgotten that he was purged from his sins in the past.

Notice the word "unfruitful" who are not diligent. What happens to those who are "unfruitful"?

They are elect but they must be diligent to maintain their election which is only "in Christ". Eph 4:1 declares that God chose you "in Him". In other words, your election is conditional on you being "in Christ".

For you to better understand the word "maintenance/maintain":
  1. what happens if you don't maintain your car payments?
  2. what happens if you don't maintain your mortgage payments?
  3. what happens if you don't maintain your marriage vows?
  4. etc......?
What happens then?
Click to expand...
Any luck with a response dealing directly with your questions? Or just the usual evasion ?
 
Predestined said:
Here are eight great Bible verses about loving and caring for animals.

Proverbs 12:10 “Whoever is righteous has regard for the life of his beast, but the mercy of the wicked is cruel.”

This proverb is very clear. Whoever is righteous will have regard for the life or the care of their animals, whether they are pets or livestock. For those who are cruel to their pets or animals, God seems to indicate that the mercy of the wicked is no better than cruelty of the wicked compared to God’s mercy, but on the other hand, the mercy and care given to those who care properly for their animals is very pleasing in God’s sight. There are several who are animal rescuers who find homes for abandoned animals, even getting them fixed and receiving their shots. I find it interesting that the two people that I know who are animal rescuers are also kind and gentle with people, so the proverb is true that whoever has regard for their animals, or any animals, is righteous in God’s sight, however that doesn’t mean they can be saved by having regard for the life of animals, since our righteousness only comes from Jesus Christ (Acts 4:12; 2nd Cor 5:21).



Read more: https://www.whatchristianswanttokno...-loving-and-caring-for-animals/#ixzz7cQ6T3QEi
Click to expand...

I was not referring to that.

I thought we were talking about an Oxen goring slaves.

Not really a cat guy ....
 
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