Doctrine of Unconditional Election

If you have been on this site long enough, you already know. I'll not be drawn into a scripture mash with you.

Right.

You're here to take "pot shots" at people, but unwilling to support your false claims.
That's called cowardice.

Election is predominantly a corporate matter and not a selection of souls to be plucked out of the abyss.

Since you offer ZERO evidence to support that false claim (and you provide a "pre-packaged" excuse for refusing to do so), you just lost the (non-)debate.

Most of the body understand this,

Logical fallacy: "argumentum ad populum" ("appeal to popularity").

Calvinists do not and therefore there is nothing 'crystal clear' about any of it in your favor.

You don't seem to understand that "clarity" and "understandability" are not the same thing.
You disagree with our (Biblical) view.
That does not make it in any way "unclear".
Indeed, the fact that you understand it sufficiently to "disagree" with it, PROVES it is not "unclear".
 
Only if you define "they body of Christ" as "anyone except Calvinists".

I hate to break this to you, but sadly the vast MAJORITY of "the body of Christ" couldn't "exegete" their way out of a paper bag.

And for those who actually KNOW how to do proper exegesis, they come up with a Calvinistic result SIGNIFICANTLY more often than not.
The "body of Christ" (anyone who isn't Calvinist) disagrees with you. :LOL: :ROFLMAO:

This persons argument is one of the lamest arguments I've ever read. In fact, it's asinine.
 
No, you haven't. My time on Carm goes back to the previous century :)
That is irrelevant though. I debated these things incessantly over the years and have no patience for it now.
Fair enough. It would probably take a Bruiser to twist your arm and make you debate when you don't want to...
 
He will know who will be but one is not in Christ until they believe according to verse 13

Eph. 1:13 —ESV
In him you also, when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation, and believed in him, were sealed with the promised Holy Spirit,”

before that

Eph. 2:11–12 —ESV
“¶ Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands—
remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world.”
I certainly agree that nobody enters the body except by faith in the person and work of Christ. That said, if you and I are of the elect of God, He has always known us as such. I think it was Adrian Rogers who popularized the incredibly wrong notion that God peers down through the annals of time and 'sees' us as faithful . To the contrary, God has no past and no future. He knows us now and has always known us intimately as of the elect even when we didn't.
 
What is certain is that no Calvinist absolutist statement about controversial doctrines being 'crystal clear' is the 'final word on truth'. The body of Christ has been exegeting scripture from the beginning and still rejects your 'crystal clear' understanding.
Unsubstantiated drivel. ^^^

It appears to be the entirety of your arsenal.
 
If you have been on this site long enough, you already know. I'll not be drawn into a scripture mash with you. Election is predominantly a corporate matter and not a selection of souls to be plucked out of the abyss. Most of the body understand this, Calvinists do not and therefore there is nothing 'crystal clear' about any of it in your favor.
"Scripture mash" I never heard that before. Is that like the punk rock mash pit thing except you use your Bible?
 
Last edited:
I certainly agree that nobody enters the body except by faith in the person and work of Christ. That said, if you and I are of the elect of God, He has always known us as such. I think it was Adrian Rogers who popularized the incredibly wrong notion that God peers down through the annals of time and 'sees' us as faithful . To the contrary, God has no past and no future. He knows us now and has always known us intimately as of the elect even when we didn't.
God does indeed know all

Election is in Christ however and we are not in Christ until we believe
 
The "body of Christ" (anyone who isn't Calvinist) disagrees with you. :LOL: :ROFLMAO:

This persons argument is one of the lamest arguments I've ever read. In fact, it's asinine.
I think your post is rather asinine but that is neither here or there. The body of Christ includes saved Calvinists but anybody with any sense at all recognizes they constitute a small minority of opinion in that body. It is further asinine to suggest your understanding is 'crystal clear' as if everybody else's view is muddied. But you do what you do and the rest of us will carry on and enjoy the spectacle.
 
Last edited:
You mean all those wonderful gospel tracts? Yeah that be him!
Like this one?

White Jesus ~ by ReverendRV

Acts 21:38 NIV
; "Aren't you the Egyptian who started a revolt and led four thousand terrorists out into the wilderness some time ago?"

I got involved in a Discussion about why Jesus is portrayed as Caucasian in works of Art; the following is my response. ~ Years ago I watched a series called 'Race, Religion and Racism', it was amazing. The book is for sale online for whoever wants it. The Preacher pointed out several reasons to believe that Jesus, Paul, Solomon, etc were men of color. One reason he did this was to try and lead Black Men away from the Nation of Islam. He also pointed out things in the Koran that should appall Black people; things like Mohammed saying ‘Black Men have heads like a raisin’. I remember the Congregation shuddered, and the Preacher said, "Did you hear what he called us?". So that Racial Slur comes to us from the Koran. ~ Prejudice is a reason Jesus appears the way he does in Art. He also appears the color of some ethnicities because a Cultural Icon is something we can relate to. In Latin regions he's Latin, in Roman regions he's white; and when he's drawn as a Black Man, there’s also prejudiced and Iconic reasons Artists do this…

When we conform Jesus to images of our self, this is Idolatry. What if you hired an Artist to paint your Portrait? If the Artist desacralized your Ethnicity by portraying you as subhuman, is that wrong? If so, then it’s wrong to portray God as Sub Divine. ~ Have you thought of Jesus as a person who looks like you? The Bible teaches that when it came to his Looks, there was nothing special about him to attract us at all; now how do we look? There are more ways to show us what we really look like; have you ever Lied? What would Jesus call you for Lying? If he looked like you, he’d look like a Liar; right? ~ Idolatry and Lying are just two of the Ten Commandments; do we need to say more? If God judged you by that standard, would you be innocent or guilty? Would you go to Heaven or to Hell? Does this bother you??

When you begin to worry about being made Right with God, go to the Son of God and he will never lead you astray. ~ For God so loved the world, he gave us his unique Son, that whosoever believes in him will not perish but have everlasting Life! Jesus is the Son of God who lived a Holy life; the only person Good enough to please God. He took your place by receiving the Wrath of God, bleeding to death on the Cross for the sake of the world; and arose from the dead for all who believe. We’re Saved by the Grace of God, through Faith in Jesus Christ; without Works lest we boast in ourselves, instead of boasting in the LORD. Repent of your Sins, Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord God; and study the Bible at an Evangelical Church. ~ Saint Paul was arrested by the Romans due to a Lie, and Profiled to be Egyptian; to many this means he was a Man of Color. When the guard found out Paul was a Roman, the guard was scared because he was trampling Paul’s Rights as a citizen. If you’ve had your Rights trampled on because of your Color, Paul and Jesus can relate to you. ~ Becoming a Christian makes you look like him; not him look like you…

Song of Songs 1:5 CSB; My skin is dark and beautiful, like a tent in the desert or like Solomon's curtains.
 
"Scripture mash" I never heard that before. Is that like the punk rock mash pit thing except you use your Bible?
Kind of ... you put together a list of cherry picked scripture bombs and lob them hoping at least one of them sticks and you can mash together something for the response you know is coming.
 
Like this one?

White Jesus ~ by ReverendRV

Acts 21:38 NIV
; "Aren't you the Egyptian who started a revolt and led four thousand terrorists out into the wilderness some time ago?"

I got involved in a Discussion about why Jesus is portrayed as Caucasian in works of Art; the following is my response. ~ Years ago I watched a series called 'Race, Religion and Racism', it was amazing. The book is for sale online for whoever wants it. The Preacher pointed out several reasons to believe that Jesus, Paul, Solomon, etc were men of color. One reason he did this was to try and lead Black Men away from the Nation of Islam. He also pointed out things in the Koran that should appall Black people; things like Mohammed saying ‘Black Men have heads like a raisin’. I remember the Congregation shuddered, and the Preacher said, "Did you hear what he called us?". So that Racial Slur comes to us from the Koran. ~ Prejudice is a reason Jesus appears the way he does in Art. He also appears the color of some ethnicities because a Cultural Icon is something we can relate to. In Latin regions he's Latin, in Roman regions he's white; and when he's drawn as a Black Man, there’s also prejudiced and Iconic reasons Artists do this…

When we conform Jesus to images of our self, this is Idolatry. What if you hired an Artist to paint your Portrait? If the Artist desacralized your Ethnicity by portraying you as subhuman, is that wrong? If so, then it’s wrong to portray God as Sub Divine. ~ Have you thought of Jesus as a person who looks like you? The Bible teaches that when it came to his Looks, there was nothing special about him to attract us at all; now how do we look? There are more ways to show us what we really look like; have you ever Lied? What would Jesus call you for Lying? If he looked like you, he’d look like a Liar; right? ~ Idolatry and Lying are just two of the Ten Commandments; do we need to say more? If God judged you by that standard, would you be innocent or guilty? Would you go to Heaven or to Hell? Does this bother you??

When you begin to worry about being made Right with God, go to the Son of God and he will never lead you astray. ~ For God so loved the world, he gave us his unique Son, that whosoever believes in him will not perish but have everlasting Life! Jesus is the Son of God who lived a Holy life; the only person Good enough to please God. He took your place by receiving the Wrath of God, bleeding to death on the Cross for the sake of the world; and arose from the dead for all who believe. We’re Saved by the Grace of God, through Faith in Jesus Christ; without Works lest we boast in ourselves, instead of boasting in the LORD. Repent of your Sins, Confess Jesus Christ as your Lord God; and study the Bible at an Evangelical Church. ~ Saint Paul was arrested by the Romans due to a Lie, and Profiled to be Egyptian; to many this means he was a Man of Color. When the guard found out Paul was a Roman, the guard was scared because he was trampling Paul’s Rights as a citizen. If you’ve had your Rights trampled on because of your Color, Paul and Jesus can relate to you. ~ Becoming a Christian makes you look like him; not him look like you…

Song of Songs 1:5 CSB; My skin is dark and beautiful, like a tent in the desert or like Solomon's curtains.
Yes LOL although I admit I liked some of them.
 
Back
Top