They are Pelagian; therefore, they believed while still dead in their sin and hostile toward God, and unable to submit to His law and unable to please Him. (Rom 8:6-8).
Regenetation
- Thread starter Reformedguy
- Start date
Faith comes from God (Eph 2:8; Php 1:29; 1 Cor 1:30).
Rockson
Well-known member
BEFORE
Now you may rebel at that not knowing what the heart of stone meant but it is BEFORE.
Pelagian ^
Reformedguy
Well-known member
LOL, despite what the text says.
That's rebellion against God -- salvation by human achievement.
Rockson
Well-known member
You're imposing meanings into the text that just aren't there. It used a metaphor heart of stone when doing so you look for surrounding scriptures to define how it was meant to be understood. Scriptures show MAN at least has the capacity to choose life.
Even in present culture we use the term heart of stone. Even Scrooge in the Christmas Carol though fictional compares to how some people are like. You recall he did at least allowed his servant to have the day off before he had his change. Man can at least do somethings too even though they have a heart of stone. Total depravity at least in how Calvinists view it is a great ERROR.
Only after a gracious intervention by God.
Why do you prefer Pelagius?
Total depravity is true (Rom 1:18ff; 3:10ff),
Total depravity isn't about man's inability to do good, but it is about man's inability to make His position right with God
That He cannot do, by his own will, in any way
The need for God to crucify His only Son in man's stead ought to make that clear to you.
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Amen. Pretty straight forward if you ask me.
Exactly. The most calvinism admits to is THAT we are washed by the blood of Christ, but wont go near HOW, faith. That doctrine is refuted by their own proof text.
I believe this as well.
Amen.
Plainly stated scripture is the best! Its really hard to let the text speak to you when you have been trained to read your doctrine into it.
Indeed, thats why it hasnt been addressed.
Amen.
Answered HERE. You answered it yourself HERE.
A unbeliever who obeys one of God's commands is not doing it because it's one of God's commands and are certainly not doing it by faith which.
You admit the truth that unbelievers can and do obey Gods commands. The bible proves it when Balaam obeyed God while being unrighteous.
You never answered HOW God cleansed you as He promised in Ez 36:25?
You never addressed how Ez 36:25-27 follows the exact same pattern (removal of sin before new heart/spirit) in FOUR other passages???
You never explained how you were able to obtain a promise of God before faith, in light of what the word says in Heb 6:12, and 11:33?
You never answered to why you believe one needs the Spirit to obtain faith, seeing what the bible says in Gal 3:2, 5, and 14?
We have no idea how you reconcile your beliefs with Acts 5:32, since you wont even mention it.
Number 6 for you.
What text? Acts 5:32 says that the Spirit is given to those who obey, not given so that one can obey. Your doctrine is "despite what the text says".
A text without a context is a pretext.
Is that the ONLY VERSE in Scripture concerning the Holy Spirit @cadwell?
Theo1689
Well-known member
Why are you objecting to something YOU routinely do yourself?
YOU are "imposing meanings into the text (of Joshua) that just aren't there), namely "ability".
Double standards much?
Readers Take Note: this poster has no qualms about making fallacious arguments and assumptions any time he thinks he needs to, yet OBJECTS when he thinks others do the same thing.
May God have mercy on his soul.
Um, that's because his heart was CHANGED.
And why are YOU appealing to a "fictional" character, rather than appealing to SCRIPTURE?
God disagrees with you (John 6:44, Rom. 8:7-8, 1 Cor. 2:14, John 3:3, Rom. 3:10-20, Eph. 2:1, Col. 2:13, etc. etc. etc.)
Only if you reject SCRIPTURE (which you do).
Reformedguy
Well-known member
Ezekeil 36:25-27. You know the one you have been dodging for days now.
Give it a read and answer the following. Did you obey the command to believe before or after the removing of the heart of stone and having been given the Spirit of God?
Number 6. My bet is looking better and better
That is a key question. If one can believe to salvation with a heart of stone, where's the need for a heart of flesh?
Stop the dishonesty. I have directly addressed those verses, and shown from scripture how faith precedes a new life and spirit. You admitted that commands from God are obeyed by unbelievers, so your idea that you need the Spirit to obey is false, and Acts 5:32 proves that idea is unscriptural.
You've already been told before, and admitted that the new heart and spirit is not required to obey. But ultimately that question is not answered in Ez 36:25-27. That passage describes WHAT God will do, while the NT describes HOW God does it. You must hear the gospel and obey it by believing it, that is how you receive the Spirit (Gal 3:2, 5, 14), in the order the bible says it happens (Acts 5:32).
Number 6 for you with a new one added in.
Theo1689
Well-known member
Are you aware that correlation is not causation?
Reformedguy
Well-known member
? Did you obey the command to believe prior to receiving a heart of flesh and the Spirit of God??
Number 7 my pay day approacheth
Reformedguy
Well-known member
Yup. His answer is...... false. Lol.