Photine
Well-known member
Evasion.
1 Jn 5:2. Jesus=God
- Thread starter Towerwatchman
- Start date
Evasion.
Towerwatchman
Well-known member
I will never blot out the name of that person from the book of life, but will acknowledge that name before my Father and his angels. 6 Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. Rev 3:5-6
Simple - Jesus states that the message He instructed John to deliver the HS will also deliver.
Photine
Well-known member
Nope.
It's the same Spirit speaking there as the Spirit who calls out 'Father Father', who you called Jesus.
Towerwatchman
Well-known member
Be truthful. Did I write that?
Re post. Gal 4:6 "Spirit of his son" refers to Jesus, and is unique to Paul. Note similar expressions occur in other letters.
Rom 8:15*“spirit of sonship”) Rom 8:9*: (“spirit of Christ”); 2 Cor 3:17*: (“spirit of the Lord”); Phil 1:19*: (“spirit of Jesus Christ”).
johnny guitar
Well-known member
Yes, Jesus is speaking by The Holy Spirit.
Photine
Well-known member
IN OTHER WORDS, Jesus is the Spirit.
Photine
Well-known member
No LOL.
2 Cor 3:17.
Jesus IS the Spirit.
God speaks to us THROUGH HIS SON. THE MEDIATOR between God and man.
The Mediator doesn't speak THROUGH ANOTHER MEDIATOR. HE SPEAKS TO US DIRECTLY, AND LIVES IN US.
John 16:25
These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.
There's no one who comes between us and the Father except HIS SON.
Matthew 11:27
“All things have been committed to me by my Father. No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him.
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Towerwatchman
Well-known member
Wow. Reading comprehension 101.
Then I turned to see the voice that spoke with me. And having turned I saw seven golden lampstands, 13 and in the midst of the seven lampstands One like the Son of Man, clothed with a garment down to the feet and girded about the chest with a golden band.
John recorded that in his vision he saw Jesus, and Jesus is the one that spoke the following.
Reading comprehension 101.
I [first person] will not blot out his [third person] name from the Book of Life; but I [first person] will confess his[third person] name before My Father[third person] and before His angels [third person]. 6 “He[third person] who has an ear, let him[third person] hear what the Spirit [third person] says to the churches.” ’
Notice Jesus identifies Himself as I, if your idea had a chance to hold water, something in the text has to connect 'the Spirit' to Jesus.
Hint 'I the Spirit'.
Nothing in the text states that Jesus is identifying Himself as 'the Spirit'.
Photine
Well-known member
LOL...
It's THE SPIRIT saying "my Father".
SAME Spirit who calls out "Father Father" in Gal 4:6, who you called JESUS.
SAME Spirit as in 2 Cor 3:17.
SAME Spirit as in 1 Cor 15:45.
SAME Spirit as in Eph 4:4.
SAME Spirit as in Gen 1:2.
Wow! There's no TRINITY after all!
Towerwatchman
Well-known member
Again did I write that.
Re post. Gal 4:6 "Spirit of his son" refers to Jesus, and is unique to Paul. Note similar expressions occur in other letters.
Rom 8:15*“spirit of sonship”) Rom 8:9*: (“spirit of Christ”); 2 Cor 3:17*: (“spirit of the Lord”); Phil 1:19*: (“spirit of Jesus Christ”).
I wrote "Spirit of His Son" refers to Jesus. Never wrote 'the Spirit" refers to Jesus.
Your argument borders on ignorance.
Fallacy of false analogy = just because the issues at hand are alike in trivial ways it does not make it relevant to the conclusion.
Since spirit if found in the verses they must be speaking of the same individual.
Photine
Well-known member
How many Spirits are there? LOLOLOLOL...
Photine
Well-known member
Yahweh will increase
Well-known member
And which proves that your education is leading you astray and will soon enough be revealed as being worthless also.
Sorry but the full context of the letter proves that what I stated about 1 John 5:20 is a fact.
Very clearly therefore, The Father is the True God and Jesus is the Eternal life and not because he himself is also God either but because he shed his blood so that the Eternal life from the Father could be given unto us who repent and believe through him.
That is the real gospel message.
By the way, you are also wrong in your idea that Jesus restored his life back to his body after dying, that is not what he was saying in either John 2:19 or John 10:17-18 and that will be my next thread post also.
What you fail to see, is that after hearing Jesus say, "destroy this temple and in three days I will raise it again", John in that 22 verse, uses the passive voice verb "raised" to explain what he and the other disciples understood from what Jesus said.
I am sure that even you with your obvious bias can understand that it is impossible for Jesus to be both active and passive in his own resurrection.
As far as John 10:17 and 18, Jesus was given a commandment from God that if he would lay down his life of his own will, he would receive it back again from the dead and his authority on that was the Father's word on it and that is all Jesus is telling us in those two passages and not that he raised himself to life again from the dead.
johnny guitar
Well-known member
Jesus said He would TAKE(NOT receive) it back again.
Towerwatchman
Well-known member
Since you don't think things through, or failed remedial reading, and I have time to kill, let me help you out.
...I [Jesus]... will confess his[third person] name before My Father[third person] and before His angels [third person].
Again dishonest.
I wrote "Spirit of His Son" refers to Jesus. Never wrote 'the Spirit" refers to Jesus.
vs 14... because the veil is taken away in Christ...16 Nevertheless when one turns to the Lord , the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit; and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as by the Spirit of the Lord.
Here is the kicker.
It could be argued that this is speaking of Jesus or the HS.
Jesus
Jesus is the one who takes the veil off in vs 14
The Lord takes the veil away in vs 16
we behold the glory of the Lord vs18
Lord is Spirit =Spirit of the Lord. ==Same as John is spirit , where the spirit of John is...
HS
The following is referring to the HS
The Lord takes the veil away in vs 16
we behold the glory of the Lord vs18
Lord is Spirit =Spirit of the Lord. vs 17
Paul is referring to Ex 34 where we read about Moses and the veil he wore after he saw the glory of God.
But whenever Moses went in before the Lord to speak with Him, he would take the veil off... And whenever the children of Israel saw the face of Moses, that the skin of Moses’ face shone, then Moses would put the veil on his face (Ex 34:34-35).
Paul connects the glory of the Lord vs 18 with the glory of YHWH in Ex 34. Either the HS or Jesus is being identified as YHWH in Ex 34.
You pick.
Jesus
HS
God
Fallacy of false analogy = just because the issues at hand are alike in trivial ways it does not make it relevant to the conclusion.
Since spirit if found in the verses they must be speaking of the same individual.
Same as arguing that all 46 presidents must be the same person because we find president in the title.
CrowCross
Well-known member
I QUOTED SCRIPTURE...JOHN 1....you quoted your opinion...which by the way is wrong.
Towerwatchman
Well-known member
1 Simon Peter, a bondservant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained like precious faith with us by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ: (2 Pe 1:1)
looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, (Tt 2:13).
28 And Thomas answered and said to Him [Jesus], “My Lord and my God!” (Jn 20:28).
According to the whole of Scripture who raised Jesus from the dead?
Romans 6:4 teaches that the Father raised Jesus from the dead.
John 2:19-21; 10:17,18 proclaims the Son raised Himself from the dead.
Romans 8:11 proclaims the Holy Spirit raised Jesus from the dead.
And Acts 3:26, 13:30, 17:30,31; 1 Thess. 1:9,10; Heb. 13:20 reveals that only God could raise Jesus from the dead.
Therefore the whole of Scripture reveals the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit in unity as God was responsible for raising Jesus from the dead.
Destroy this temple (λύσατε τὸν ναὸν τοῦτον) luo ho naos houtos . Destroy, lit., loosen. Notice that the word for temple is ναὸν, [46 occurrences; AV translates as “temple” 45 times, and “a shrine” once. 1 used of the temple at Jerusalem, but only of the sacred edifice (or sanctuary) itself, consisting of the Holy place and the Holy of Holies (in classical Greek it is used of the sanctuary or cell of the temple, where the image of gold was placed which is distinguished from the whole enclosure).This temple points to the literal temple, which is truly a temple only as it is the abode of God, hence sanctuary, but with a typical reference to Jesus’ own person as the holy dwelling-place of God who “was in Christ.” Christ’s death was therefore the pulling down of the temple, and His resurrection its rebuilding. The imperative in destroy is of the nature of a challenge. Note in stating the Living God dwells in Him Jesus is stating that within Him dwells the final authority to any question.
17 “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. 18 No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.”
Seems you are wrong again.
Photine
Well-known member
"MY FATHER... HEAR WHAT THE SPIRIT SAYS"..
You are refuted.
Say "the spirit of his son", not "spirit of his son", or else it seems like you're trying to be misleading.
I am not sure if you know this yet, but there's only ONE Spirit (Eph 4:4).
You believe in two, possibly three.
False. It identifies Christ as the Lord who is the Spirit. There's no "third person" in view at all.
Referring to Christ the Lord..
2 Cor 4:3-5
3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing. 4 In their case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelievers, to keep them from seeing the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For what we proclaim is not ourselves, but Jesus Christ as Lord, with ourselves as your servants for Jesus’ sake.
Jesus is the Life-Giving Spirit? Wow, He must be The Holy Spirit!
The Holy Spirit is Christ (2 Cor 3:17).
From now on, say "the third person" instead of the Holy Spirit.
Christ.
Christ is the Spirit of God (Rom 8:9).
ERROR.
Christ is The Holy Spirit (2 Cor 3:17, Gal 4:6, Rev 3:5, 1 Cor 15:45, Etc).
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Photine
Well-known member
"JESUS IS GOD" is misleading to you. You don't actually believe that. You believe "the trinity" is God. Not Jesus ALONE.
johnny guitar
Well-known member
God is TRIUNE.
Case closed.