A Gallup poll:

glenlogie said:
Does gravity exist?

It does, so why should anyone deny it?

What is the purpose of denying that gravity exists, unless the person denying it has something to gain from denting it?
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You people and yes/no questions.

I'm done - do your childish little victory dance and call me a coward for running away.
 
Thistle said:
It's certainly a fact that the leopard tanks are a heck of a lot easier to operate and maintain.

The arrival of these Leopard tanks is just rearranging deck chairs on the titanic. It is over!

If they're not resourceful enough to disappear into those countries.

Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. You will believe anything.

Russia has a numerical advantage going away.

No. Feel free to run into any propaganda hole you want if it's important to you to do that. That's never going to yield the truth, but for a lot of people the truth doesn't really matter. You may be one of those people and that's just fine if you are.

As I pointed out above that's what Ukraine is doing.

Okay, a handful of Ukrainians are getting specialized training on particular weapons systems so that when we ship those systems over there at least somebody in the country can operate them. It won't make any difference when they arrive there's not enough of it. They will operate that equipment for a few hours before they're disintegrated with Russian precision munitions.

That is true of Ukraine.

I don't know what this post was intended to prove? It is nearly 180° from reality is it could possibly be.
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So you believe Russia will not have to conscript anymore citizens to fight as they have already?
 
Thistle said:
I have addressed this above. Joe Biden sent an Uber for Zelenskyy when the Russians invaded. If Zelenskyy had accepted the offer all those predictions would have been correct. Apparently, Joe Biden believe those prediction. No I'm not saying that being smarter than Joe Biden makes anybody more intelligent than a room temperature IQ, But it is a fact that McGregor was very nearly vindicated. And if Zelenskyy didn't get a vote he would've been.
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Mcgregor hasn't gotten anything right.
He just keeps making excuses why he was wrong only to make another false prediction.He would make an excellent false prophet as he can't get anything right and still get people to believe him.
 
Josheb said:
Relevance?
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You stated:
Josheb said:
Gallup is a very skilled polling business, so I stats on "uncertainty" can be found at their site. I'm not sure what that has to do with my comment, though.
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Then I responded:
inertia said:
The reason I mentioned uncertainty is that understanding it in a given poll informs people of what matters most. Certainly random variation still applies, but providing statistical significance can assist by quantitatively establishing what relationships and changes are important.

In a nutshell, one should be suspicious about a non-scientific poll.
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Maybe I should have not brought up the significance at all. ( I tried. )

Josheb said:
And what makes you think Gallup was "unscientific"?
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I don't have any reason to believe that the Gallup poll was unscientific.

Josheb said:
A better analogy might be between Ahab/Jezebel and Babylon. or Babylon, Persia, and Judah because no one is blameless in this conflict and the western democracies hold some culpabilities for going back on their word. A compromise was negotiated where Ukraine would not join NATO
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Because Jezebel murdered and robbed Naboth for his land, in my opinion, the narrative closely illustrates the current and ongoing war crimes that Russia perpetrated in Ukraine's recent history. Also, in my opinion, the hated Samaritan that helped someone in need using his own resources is another good analogy of U.S. involvement to date.

Moving on, I don't understand your recollection of a negotiated compromise concerning an agreement to join NATO.

Although Ukraine had a partnership with NATO since the 1990's and applied for membership in 2008, my source shows that president Yanukovych signed into law an indefinite halt to any progress toward NATO membership in 2010. Then in 2011 Tymoshenko's opponents had him convicted of abuse of power. Three years later in 2014 Prime Minister Arseniy Yatsenyuk also sought membership in NATO but that effort didn't succeeded because the alliance's collective defense posture denied its request. The opposition was from France and Germany*.

Josheb said:
they'd surrender their nukes, and Rusia wouldn't invade.
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Back in 1991, Ukraine never possessed operational control of the nuclear arsenal and by 1994 each and every one were transported to Russia.**

Josheb said:
The west continued to make overtures to a corrupt regime to join NATO knowing it was provocative to Russia. Furthermore, there are elements in the Ukrainian Army that are fascist. Google "ukrainian soldiers with ss tattoos," and peruse the results. The matter is further complicated because the eastern part of Ukraine still speaks Russian and adheres to Russian cultural histories. It would be comparable to Chinatown covering the entire west coast of the US, or the challenges the UK has experienced with Ireland. Russians (in and out of Ukraine) think Ukraine treats the Russian-Ukrainians the way the Chinese treat the Uyghurs. Then there's the matter of "gold." All wars are fought for gold (money). the more access to the Black Sea Russia has the better.
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I've read a number of different narratives about ^this^ history and they are not similar to this one. Got References?

Josheb said:
But ultimately.....

I DON'T CARE!
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I do care. It affects too many and it has the potential of getting worse.

Josheb said:
I don't care about the excuses and justifications and explanations, or merits of supporting Ukraine or anyone else if US tax-payer resources are spent wantonly. Tell me objectives, show me how the objectives are reach, document the expenditures anddemonstrate the resources allocated achieved the stated goals.
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Resources are an important subject to be sure. Those -coveted- resources may not be there if a powerful adversary is allowed to invade without resistance until it's too late to respond with an adequate defense. Helping those in need is a Christian obligation too and ignoring this responsibility will only make evil propagate with a vengeance.

About those objectives:

Hostilities evolve with time, and even with the best and clearest theoretical objectives in place at the outset, situations change in a nonlinear and unexpected way. In the end, objectives must evolve in order to properly accommodate a final settlement that no one can predict with only a set of initial conditions.

Josheb said:
That is how all foreign aid should be conducted and that is not happening in Ukraine. Maybe I am wrong, but I suspect there will be greater support for Ukraine if and when concrete goals are articulated, and a sound accounting of tax-payer resources are provided. Until that is done Ukraine will be like every other foreign war in which the US has participated.
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Some of that articulation is probably being formulated as we type our responses in this conversation. The situation could become nonlinear though if Poland is invaded soon. No amount of current articulation will help if the proverbial stuff hits the fan due to a completely separate point of inflection that many are unprepared for at this juncture.

Josheb said:
Are you aware the money the US has spent in Ukraine rivals the entire yearly military budget of Russia?
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Reference? - I'm curious

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* " That time Ukraine tried to join NATO - and NATO said no", Washington Post, Sept. 2014

** nti.org / countries / ukraine
 
inertia said:
Additional security assistance to Ukraine: 02/24/2023

"Specifically, the United States is committing additional Unmanned Aerial Systems (UAS) and counter-UAS and electronic warfare detection equipment, as well as critical ammunition stocks for artillery and precision fires capabilities that will bolster Ukraine's ability to repel Russian aggression.

Capabilities in this security assistance package include:

• Additional ammunition for High Mobility Artillery Rocket Systems (HIMARS);
• Additional 155mm artillery rounds;
• Munitions for laser-guided rocket systems;
• CyberLux K8 UAS;
• Switchblade 600 UAS;
• Altius-600 UAS;
• Jump 20 UAS;
• Counter-UAS and electronic warfare detection equipment;
• Mine clearing equipment;
• Secure communications support equipment;
• Funding for training, maintenance, and sustainment.

Unlike Presidential Drawdown, USAI is an authority under which the United States procures capabilities rather than delivering equipment that is drawn down from DoD stocks. "


________

USA

.
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M1A2 Abrams tanks spotted:




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CrowCross said:

Inertia....​

UPDATED 3:16 PM EST -- It Is Done: Bakhmut is Encircled by Russian Troops(article)​

This is a massive victory for the Russian Army. By finally taking Bakhmut, Russia has now cut-off all supply lines for the Ukrainian Army to the south and southeast of Ukraine. Those areas will now fall, one at a time, to the never-ending Russian onslaught.

Ukraine is losing the war. As reported on this web site from the very beginning, once the Russian Army crossed their border, Ukraine stood no chance at all. Only the West thought otherwise, and provided aid to Ukraine. That aid only served to delay the inevitable, and cost tens-of-thousands of more Ukrainian deaths.

Ukraine should surrender.

Keep in mind, I'm not a fan of Putin.
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A questionable source. Note that the graphic photograph in your link does not display Ukrainian markings on the uniforms. Also note that "Hal Turner lived a double life as shock jock Neo-Nazi by day and an FBI informant giving information on other Neo-Nazi, white supremacists, and on On 21 December 2010, he was sentenced to 33 months in prison." ( reference: Media Bias / Fact Check )

In perspective:

Reuters 02/26/2023

- "The commander of Ukrainian ground forces Colonel general Oleksandr Syrskyi visited besieged Bakhmut to boost morale and talk strategy with units defending the town and surrounding villages in eastern Ukraine, the military said over the weekend."

Mercado Media: 02/25/2023

- ( see Timestamp 01:36:14 ++ for details ) - combat videos provided for context ( 01:59:48 )

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CrowCross said:
Perhaps.....but a verdict such as you proclaimed doesn't negate what he wrote about.

I often see people here attack the "reporter...platform" rather than investigate the event being spoken of.
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...and I supplied actual news in response.

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CrowCross said:
To some degree we can control the weather. As to earthquakes....we'll need a little bit more evidence.
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Funny you would be concerned about conscious attempts to control weather patterns to prevent famine, floods etc, yet you reject the reality of climate change caused by a century and a half of burning fossil fuels.
 
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