A short essay for the Brit who thinks "torture" is a synonym for "punishment"

[Lucian]

You shouldn't be. The reason the post was so You are either an educated unbeliever or a believer unusually unfamiliar with Bible translation because, as @John Milton pointed out, "There is such a word as "kolasin". It is an inflected form of the dictionary entry "kolasis" as one of the sources cited above correctly states." That isn't at all unusual in Bible study. Now, the source John pointed out also included references to Aristotle and Plato which you should have been at least somewhat familiar with, which said that kolasin, or as you would have it, kolasis, as meaning pruning. Pruning is a cutting off. So you were wrong on both counts. Kolisin is a word and it, as well as kolasis means cutting off.

I repeat: Again, there's no such word as 'kolasin'. Kolasis means 'pruning' in the same sense that pneuma means 'fart'. In any case, it's plainly false to say in reference to Mt. 25:46 that "kolasin [sic]... means cutting-off". Note that the LSJ doesn’t refer to Aristotle or Plato in the context of offering this gloss, contrary to your assertion here.

Your own source, the LSJ, confirms the truth of all this, so I’m unsure what else I can add. The fact that you are now misspelling the word you allege exists is rather telling, no?

Yes, but what does it mean? What do all of those applications have in common? Pneuma is an invisible active force which produces visible results. You can't see it but you can see the result. We breath air and it maintains life, the wind or breeze stirs the leaves, bends the trees, etc.

Cool. What’s the point of these questions and observations? I’m not seeing how they rescue the mistaken claims you made earlier.

 

[Semmelweis Reflex]

Some might suspect that YOU have been "spoon fed" such elitist beliefs that would result in your self servingly characterizing yourself as intellectually a cut above those who are so impressed by the wisdom and edifying nature of certain scriptural passages as to have those verses permanently branded and ingrained in their minds.

If you had a brain in your head that you made use of you might, of course. I happen to fall under that category so that is what I do do. But like I said, it isn't the passages I do that with, it's the meaning. You see? Were you paying attention?

My favorite passage, since I first began to study, is Micah 6:8. In the original language it says what God is asking of us is to be humble. In the Hebrew the original word used means to be aware of ones own weaknesses as well as strengths. That's why I mentioned the importance of working together as opposed to being, as is increasingly the case in the world, ideologically defensive. And how do you respond? You're insulted by the idea of me being arrogant. You see?

Think rather highly of yourself, don't you?

Quite the contrary. I think highly of you.

 

[Semmelweis Reflex]

I repeat: Again, there's no such word as 'kolasin'. Kolasis means 'pruning' in the same sense that pneuma means 'fart'. In any case, it's plainly false to say in reference to Mt. 25:46 that "kolasin [sic]... means cutting-off". Note that the LSJ doesn’t refer to Aristotle or Plato in the context of offering this gloss, contrary to your assertion here.

kolasin is the accusative feminine singular form of kolasis. In summary, the meaning is the same.

Your own source, the LSJ, confirms the truth of all this, so I’m unsure what else I can add. The fact that you are now misspelling the word you allege exists is rather telling, no?

No. LSJ was only one source mentioned, the source @John Milton and I were referring to was this. That source also links to the LSJ website which does confirm the truth of all of this. It means pruning or "checking the growth of trees." See this here. (Note: at the top of the page it says: "(Show lexicon entry in LSJ Middle Liddell)" Click on the LSJ link and the entry will appear.)

Cool. What’s the point of these questions and observations? I’m not seeing how they rescue the mistaken claims you made earlier.

That's because I haven't. The point is your examples of what pneuma is translated into doesn't give you any insight on what the word means. The same as in my thread on God, The Problem with Atheism by Definition. Examples of the application of the word god doesn't give the meaning. All examples fall under the meaning but don't express what that meaning is so people confuse the examples for the meaning resulting in them not understanding what the simple meaning is.

 

[Lucian]

kolasin is the accusative feminine singular form of kolasis. In summary, the meaning is the same.

That’s better, but still a bit muddled. What’s the masculine form?

No. LSJ was only one source mentioned, the source @John Milton and I were referring to was this. That source also links to the LSJ website which does confirm the truth of all of this. It means pruning or "checking the growth of trees." See this here.

The LSJ confirms, indeed, that the word means 'pruning' in the same sense that pneuma means 'fart'.

That's because I haven't. The point is your example of what pneuma is translated into doesn't give you any insight on what the word means.

I don’t quite know what you’re trying to say here, but it sounds rather confused.

 

[Semmelweis Reflex]

That’s better, but still a bit muddled. What’s the masculine form?

Now Look! It identifies as feminine. I'm not sure of the preferred pronouns, but let's not go there!

[Laughs] You'll either figure it out or make another mark on your debate belt.

The LSJ confirms, indeed, that the word means 'pruning' in the same sense that pneuma means 'fart'.

Okay. I'll play. The Greek word for fart is βδέω. How does pneuma mean that?

I don’t quite know what you’re trying to say here, but it sounds rather confused.

You'll get it. Just look above.

 

[Lucian]

Now Look! It identifies as feminine. I'm not sure of the preferred pronouns, but let's not go there!

[Laughs] You'll either figure it out or make another mark on your debate belt.

I’m not sure why you’re avoiding my question. You said that kolasin was the ‘feminine… form of kolasis’. So, what’s the masculine form?

Okay. I'll play. The Greek word for fart is βδέω. How does pneuma mean that?

Now you’re confusing nouns with verbs. It may be time to stop digging.

You'll get it. Just look above.

I’m afraid that’s no help.

 

[stiggy wiggy]

........that is what I do do.

All over the place.

. But like I said, it isn't the passages I do that with, it's the meaning. You see?

No.

You're insulted by the idea of me being arrogant. You see?

Yes.

Quite the contrary. I think highly of you.

Thanks. Wish I could return the compliment.

 

[John Milton]

I’m not sure why you’re avoiding my question. You said that kolasin was the ‘feminine… form of kolasis’. So, what’s the masculine form?

What's the point of this? It doesn't seem just to expect someone (who doesn't seem to claim to know Greek) to speak precisely about it or to imply that the terms used in a casual conversation are incorrect because they aren't technical.

 

[Semmelweis Reflex]

All over the place.

You caught that. I'm surprised.

Thanks. Wish I could return the compliment.

It isn't a compliment.

 

[Semmelweis Reflex]

What's the point of this?

It's the art of debate. Elevating oneself with a false sense of security by devaluing someone else. It could be a useful tool in learning, but usually it's squandered in order to appease the ego. So, everyone becomes defensive. Division occurs and the collective intelligence is sacrificed. Global warming for example. Facts don't matter. Groupthink.

An exceptional ichthyologist goes to the Amazon to study with the primitive fishermen.

Lucian never actually says much of anything. It's too dangerous to his façade.

 

[treeplanter]

Let's try this:

Imagine if you will, Guy A who has never EXPERIENCED a Treeplanter post, i.e. someone who has never read one. Another guy comes along and informs him:

"There is this silly man who calls himself Treeplanter who types really stupid posts on a discussion board, claiming to be an atheist and appears to be very angry at a God he doesn't believe exists for causing people harm."

Now the first guy, Guy A, having good reason to give credence to the second guy, takes him at his word and gives mental assent to the fact that such a silly man makes stupid posts.

Now consider a different guy, Guy B who has read thousands of Treeplanter posts with all the repetitive nonsense about "consciously, purposely, needlessly, blah, blah, blah." with its attendant stupid George Washington and Nebraska football type analogies, in other words one who has EXPERIENCED the stupidity first hand.

Which of the two guys, Guy A or Guy B, will have the superior knowledge regarding the aforementioned stupidity?

What you keep ignoring is that God - if He truly is God, i.e. Almighty and omnipotent - is fully capable of communicating anything He wants - to anyone He wants - in any fashion He wants and to any degree of effectiveness that He wants

It has NOTHING to do with you and your feeble comprehension of what you think you might need!

That God chooses to communicate experientially wherein the experience, itself, is a harmful one is a NEEDLESS choice
An infliction of NEEDLESS harm


You've already admitted that God, in your estimation, is not capable of imparting, to the same degree of effectiveness, a lesson without harm as He is a lesson with harm

In short, you have admitted that God, in your estimation, is something less than Almighty
Something less than omnipotent
Something less than what He, Himself, claims to be

And when pressed as to why you choose to place your trust in Him anyway - the best you can do is to make the meaningless assertion that, in your experience, He is worthy of your trust

Pathetic...

 

[stiggy wiggy]

It isn't a compliment.

You know, on second thought, considering the source it's not. Kinda like OJ thinking highly of someone's marital skills.

 

[Semmelweis Reflex]

I’m not sure why you’re avoiding my question.

Maybe I'm not. Maybe I don't know the answer. Maybe you don't. If the former will you teach me, if the latter will you learn?

You said that kolasin was the ‘feminine… form of kolasis’. So, what’s the masculine form?

Uh...let's see. Feminine would imply what? The opposite to masculine? Electrical outlet. Gee. What does that have to do with anything? It's mentioned, what? Once in scripture? Punishment? Electric shock?

Now you’re confusing nouns with verbs. It may be time to stop digging.

Okay, classic Greek pedantic. To fart. It's never time to stop digging.

I’m afraid that’s no help.

No. You're afraid it is.

 

[Semmelweis Reflex]

You know, on second thought, considering the source it's not. Kinda like OJ thinking highly of someone's marital skills.

Or like a brother. A mean and vindictive Christian full of hate. An ideologue.

 

[treeplanter]

Because YHVH doesn't abandon those who come to him and place their trust in Jesus.

Yes, He does, Steve

There are, at this very moment, millions of sincere seekers across the earth who have been deceived into following the wrong god

When these people die and find themselves standing before the One True God, YHVH/Jesus Christ
Fully aware of Him for the first time
Fully prepared to give themselves to Him

YHVH/Jesus Christ will say to these poor souls:
"Tough - it's too late, you're going to Hell"

 

[stiggy wiggy]

What you keep ignoring is that God - if He truly is God, i.e. Almighty and omnipotent - is fully capable of communicating anything He wants - to anyone He wants - in any fashion He wants and to any degree of effectiveness that He wants

That's stupid. Why would I ignore something I already believe?

An infliction of NEEDLESS harm

No, all the harm He's ever either inflicted or allowed in my life, I have needed. For example, the harm He allows your moronic posts the be inflicted on my intellect, I NEED in order to realize that intelligence is not all it's cracked up to be. Humility is better.

You've already admitted that God, in your estimation, is not capable of imparting, to the same degree of effectiveness, a lesson without harm as He is a lesson with harm

Correct. I even gave you a specific answer in terms of adultery.

In short, you have admitted that God, in your estimation, is something less than Almighty

Incorrect. He is so mighty, He can even restrict His might on purpose to allow experiential lessons to be learned.

And when pressed as to why you choose to place your trust in Him anyway

Correct. Even when not pressed.

 

[stiggy wiggy]

A mean and vindictive Christian full of hate.

Christian? You are confusing Fletcher with his nemesis, Captain Bligh.

 

[Semmelweis Reflex]

Christian? You are confusing Fletcher with his nemesis, Captain Bligh.

I don't think so, why do you ask?

 

[Lucian]

Maybe I'm not. Maybe I don't know the answer. Maybe you don't. If the former will you teach me, if the latter will you learn?

Uh...let's see. Feminine would imply what? The opposite to masculine? Electrical outlet. Gee. What does that have to do with anything? It's mentioned, what? Once in scripture? Punishment? Electric shock?

Rambling isn’t an answer to my question, alas, and constitutes further avoidance.

Okay, classic Greek pedantic. To fart. It's never time to stop digging.

It’s not pedantic to note that nouns and verbs are different things.

No. You're afraid it is.

This doesn’t help clarify your position, of course.

 

[Semmelweis Reflex]

Rambling isn’t an answer to my question, alas, and constitutes further avoidance.

It’s not pedantic to note that nouns and verbs are different things.

This doesn’t help clarify your position, of course.

It's always a circle with an empty center with you. The Greek word used at Matthew 25:46 means pruning. Cutting off the bad to produce the good.

What's the argument? I've corrected you every step of the way so what good is that? Oh, I feel so strong! I proved some dummy on the Internet was wrong.

It's boring. It only gets interesting for me if you correct me. If you can do that - quickly - then I beg you. Please! Do it!