Calvinist Ordo Salutis

[Our Lord's God]

The order is clearly in error

Faith/repententance
Justification
regeneration

justification /remission of sin precedes being made alive (regeneration)

Colossians 2:13 (KJV 1900) — 13 And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

you are not made alive until you are forgiven

and you are not forgiven until repentance and faith

Calvinism errs

You need to die together with Christ to your old life first and before you can be raised up together with him, born of God to a new life.

Calvinists have it backwards.

 

[Synergy]

My reply was directed at @Synergy .
He seems to be trying to deny the word "repent" of any meaning.

We repent of our sins, because we are GUILTY of breaking God's law.
Either the poster refuses to admit this, or else he doesn't understand it.

Repentance is for the remission of sins.

 

[Howie]

My reply was directed at @Synergy .
He seems to be trying to deny the word "repent" of any meaning.

We repent of our sins, because we are GUILTY of breaking God's law.
Either the poster refuses to admit this, or else he doesn't understand it.

Sorry. For some reason I thought the post was written by synergy.

 

[Our Lord's God]

My reply was directed at @Synergy .
He seems to be trying to deny the word "repent" of any meaning.

We repent of our sins, because we are GUILTY of breaking God's law.

Are you a Jew?

Either the poster refuses to admit this, or else he doesn't understand it.

 

[fltom]

You need to die together with Christ to your old life first and before you can be raised up together with him, born of God to a new life.

Calvinists have it backwards.

Colossians 2:12 (KJV 1900) — 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

not water

 

[Our Lord's God]

Colossians 2:12 (KJV 1900) — 12 Buried with him in baptism, wherein also ye are risen with him through the faith of the operation of God, who hath raised him from the dead.

Which comes first in that verse? Dying together with him or being raised up with him to new life?

Calvinists have it backwards.

not water

Irrelevant.

 

[fltom]

In 30 years I've never seen an "inconsistency".
I've only seen haters invent straw-man arguments to try to CREATE imaginary "inconsistences".

Maybe you do not want to see but a number have been posted

and you ran from some of them

 

[Synergy]

Maybe you do not want to see but a number have been posted

and you ran from some of them

My Clay collected a list of them.

 

[Our Lord's God]

In 30 years I've never seen an "inconsistency".

That is obvious.

I've only seen haters invent straw-man arguments to try to CREATE imaginary "inconsistences".

Seeing only what you want to see is obvious too.

 

[Theo1689]

My Clay collected a list of them.

None of them were valid.

That's like saying your Christianity is false because atheists have lists of hundreds and hundreds of Bible contradictions.

 

[eternomade]

Are you a Jew?

For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Romans 2:28‭-‬29 KJV

 

[Our Lord's God]

For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.
Romans 2:28‭-‬29 KJV

Did you have some kind of point?

 

[Carbon]

Did you have some kind of point?

It went right over your head obviously. ?

 

[Synergy]

None of them were valid.

That's like saying your Christianity is false because atheists have lists of hundreds and hundreds of Bible contradictions.

Have you looked at any of them?

 

[Theo1689]

Have you looked at any of them?

All of them.

 

[Synergy]

All of them.

How about mine:

1. It seems to me that Reformed theology says that one can be regenerated (infused with the Holy Spirit, Born Again) even before one repents of his former ways. This contradicts Acts 2:38 wherein Saint Paul says that repentance precedes regeneration. These are hard core holiness standards I believe that must be met before one becomes a child of God.

2. Irresistible Grace neutralizes human will and renders it incapable of playing any role whatsoever in the acceptance of the gift of salvation. It flies in the face of Rev 3:20 “Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him and he with Me.” It renders Christ's human will as totally subsumed by Christ's divine will and therefore non-existent.
Furthermore, if Grace is Irresistible, there would be no need for Jesus to exhort people in Mark 1:15 to repent in order to receive God’s Grace. Grace would be irresistibly received without any need for evangelistic proclamation whatsoever.

3. It’s disingenuous for Reformers to proclaim that God loves everyone when in fact the Reformed God has already predestined souls to destruction and there’s nothing that soul can do about it, even if he repented and believed. Nothing, nada. That belief contradicts 1 John 2:2 wherein it is mentioned that Jesus "is the propitiation concerning our sins, and not concerning ours only, but also concerning the sins of all the world (ὅλου τοῦ κόσμου)” (1 John 2:2), where the word "ὅλου" translates to “all”.

4. Total Depravity is Iconoclastic to the core. The doctrine of Total Depravity is the smashing of the icon image of God in man, a dehumanization of man. Nowhere in the Bible has man ever totally lost the icon image of God that is in all of us as evidenced by our God-given hearts and conscience (Rom 2:14-15). I do believe that man is depraved but not totally depraved.

 

[Carbon]

How about mine:

1. It seems to me that Reformed theology says that one can be regenerated (infused with the Holy Spirit, Born Again) even before one repents of his former ways. This contradicts Acts 2:38 wherein Saint Paul says that repentance precedes regeneration. These are hard core holiness standards I believe that must be met before one becomes a child of God.

Paul says no such thing.

Before you go forward prove Paul teaches such.

 

[Carbon]

How about mine:

1. It seems to me that Reformed theology says that one can be regenerated (infused with the Holy Spirit, Born Again) even before one repents of his former ways. This contradicts Acts 2:38 wherein Saint Paul says that repentance precedes regeneration. These are hard core holiness standards I believe that must be met before one becomes a child of God.

2. Irresistible Grace neutralizes human will and renders it incapable of playing any role whatsoever in the acceptance of the gift of salvation. It flies in the face of Rev 3:20 “Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him and he with Me.” It renders Christ's human will as totally subsumed by Christ's divine will and therefore non-existent.
Furthermore, if Grace is Irresistible, there would be no need for Jesus to exhort people in Mark 1:15 to repent in order to receive God’s Grace. Grace would be irresistibly received without any need for evangelistic proclamation whatsoever.

3. It’s disingenuous for Reformers to proclaim that God loves everyone when in fact the Reformed God has already predestined souls to destruction and there’s nothing that soul can do about it, even if he repented and believed. Nothing, nada. That belief contradicts 1 John 2:2 wherein it is mentioned that Jesus "is the propitiation concerning our sins, and not concerning ours only, but also concerning the sins of all the world (ὅλου τοῦ κόσμου)” (1 John 2:2), where the word "ὅλου" translates to “all”.

4. Total Depravity is Iconoclastic to the core. The doctrine of Total Depravity is the smashing of the icon image of God in man, a dehumanization of man. Nowhere in the Bible has man ever totally lost the icon image of God that is in all of us as evidenced by our God-given hearts and conscience (Rom 2:14-15). I do believe that man is depraved but not totally depraved.

Oh and God does not love everyone. God hates the reprobate

 

[Carbon]

I do believe that man is depraved but not totally depraved.

I don’t think my old friend civic would mind if I said, you sound just like him here.
I think we’re still buds. ?

 

[Theo1689]

How about mine:

1. It seems to me that Reformed theology says that one can be regenerated (infused with the Holy Spirit, Born Again) even before one repents of his former ways. This contradicts Acts 2:38 wherein Saint Paul says that repentance precedes regeneration. These are hard core holiness standards I believe that must be met before one becomes a child of God.

Acts 2:38 doesn't teach "repentance precedes regeneration".
It doesn't even MENTION "regeneration".

38 And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

2. Irresistible Grace neutralizes human will and renders it incapable of playing any role whatsoever in the acceptance of the gift of salvation. It flies in the face of Rev 3:20 “Behold, I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears My voice and opens the door, I will come in to him and will dine with him and he with Me.” It renders Christ's human will as totally subsumed by Christ's divine will and therefore non-existent.

This is false.
Rev. 3:20 is directed at the CHURCH, not to unbelievers.

Furthermore, if Grace is Irresistible, there would be no need for Jesus to exhort people in Mark 1:15 to repent in order to receive God’s Grace. Grace would be irresistibly received without any need for evangelistic proclamation whatsoever.

I guess you ripped Rom. 10 out of your Bible.
You also include the false assumption that Jesus doesn't do anything He doesn't "need" to do.

3. It’s disingenuous for Reformers to proclaim that God loves everyone when in fact the Reformed God has already predestined souls to destruction and there’s nothing that soul can do about it, even if he repented and believed. Nothing, nada.

God DOES love everyone (Matt. 5:45).
He simply doesn't love everyone enough to save them (nor is He obligated to).

That belief contradicts 1 John 2:2 wherein it is mentioned that Jesus "is the propitiation concerning our sins, and not concerning ours only, but also concerning the sins of all the world (ὅλου τοῦ κόσμου)” (1 John 2:2), where the word "ὅλου" translates to “all”.

I reject your misinterpretation of "holou tou kosmou".

4. Total Depravity is Iconoclastic to the core.

An unsupported accusation.

The doctrine of Total Depravity is the smashing of the icon image of God in man, a dehumanization of man.

An unsupported accusation.

Nowhere in the Bible has man ever totally lost the icon image of God that is in all of us

And Calvinism does NOT teach that we've lost the Imago Dei.
So now you're simply showing your ignorance.

as evidenced by our God-given hearts and conscience (Rom 2:14-15).

Rom. 2 doesn't say we were given "God-given hearts".

I do believe that man is depraved but not totally depraved.

A personal belief is not a valid argument.