Atemi
Well-known member
Stop putting her on a pedestal that she would NEVER want to be on.
Catholics believe they "honor" Mary by lying about her and denying their children.
They slander the woman and insist that is "respect."
Stop putting her on a pedestal that she would NEVER want to be on.
Mary wasn't the real Mother of God?Just because you can spell something correctly, does not make it a real thing.
It is likely she is not your spiritual Mother, but she is mine and all those in the Kingdom of God.No, she's not.
I know, you think she was a ditzy blond. right? To your chagrin I'm sure, Mary is the Mother of Christ, hence the Mother of God. Unless you wish to argue Jesus wasn't God, or Mary didn't bear Christ.Mary is completely oblivious to anything or anyone on Earth.
I never said Mary was God or omniscient. I believe I said she was a creature just as you are a created being.She is not God.
She is not omniscient.
Your belief is borderline blasphemous.
An honor without honorarium?We do honor Jesus.
I'd suggest she was, so should you; unless you're of the generation who will not call her blessed [Cf. Luke 1:48] .But as blessed as Mary was, she was not "most honorable".
Mary wasn't the real Mother of God?
It is likely she is not your spiritual Mother, but she is mine and all those in the Kingdom of God.
I know, you think she was a ditzy blond. right?
To your chagrin I'm sure, Mary is the Mother of Christ, hence the Mother of God. Unless you wish to argue Jesus wasn't God, or Mary didn't bear Christ.
I never said Mary was God or omniscient. I believe I said she was a creature just as you are a created being.
I'd suggest she was, so should you; unless you're of the generation who will not call her blessed [Cf. Luke 1:48] .
But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. (Gal. 4:26)It is likely she is not your spiritual Mother, but she is mine and all those in the Kingdom of God.
Mary is indeed our Spiritual Mother.Mary isn't OUR mother.
I can only judge what is seen on the screen. Just like my judgement is that the latter question is hypocrisy in action.Why do you feel the need to constantly MISREPRESENT others?
Why do Romanists consider honesty to be a heinous vice?
The first half of the statement was, "It is likely she is not your spiritual Mother". How could my assumption be wrong when you said yourself that "Spiritual Mother" doesn't exist. The second half of the statement was, "but she is mine and all those in the Kingdom of God.". I can assure you she is.Another false claim by you.
Mary represents the Church which we honor along with His Mother. Your words represent you.Why are you disrespecting Mary, and misrepresenting me?
I try harder.Don't get me wrong.
I appreciate you showing the rotten fruits of Romanism.
Do better.
Your words represent you. It is Truth Personified that we love and He loved His mother.Why do you continue to misrepresent me?
It's a shame that Romanists hate truth and honesty.
I kind of getting lost on "you said" - "I said" but it was you who said:I never said that you said Mary was God.
Mary is indeed our "spiritual mother" - isn't that "better"?Why do you feel the need to constantly misrepresent me?
Don't get me wrong.
I appreciate you showing the rotten fruits of Romanism.
Do better.
Why do you constantly misrepresent me?
Of course she was blessed.
Have you never read the Bible?!
But she was not "most favoured".
And she is not the "spiritual mother" of Christians.
Wrong. How many mothers do RCs have? They claim the church is their mother.Mary is indeed our Spiritual Mother.
I can only judge what is seen on the screen. Just like my judgement is that the latter question is hypocrisy in action.
The first half of the statement was, "It is likely she is not your spiritual Mother". How could my assumption be wrong when you said yourself that "Spiritual Mother" doesn't exist. The second half of the statement was, "but she is mine and all those in the Kingdom of God.". I can assure you she is.
Mary represents the Church which we honor along with His Mother. Your words represent you.
I try harder.
Your words represent you. It is Truth Personified that we love and He loved His mother.
I kind of getting lost on "you said" - "I said" but it was you who said:
"She is not God.
"She is not omniscient."
"Your belief is borderline blasphemous. "
My response was natural, I never said, and let me add, nor does any Catholci believe that Mary is God, or omniscient. I conclude then that your characterization is wrong.
Mary is indeed our "spiritual mother" - isn't that "better"?
JoeT
I wonder if Leo said he was speaking figuratively. ?Wrong. How many mothers do RCs have? They claim the church is their mother.
The Fourth Lateran Council, in 1215, called the Church “the mother of all the faithful.” In his 1891 encyclical Rerum Novarum, Pope Leo XIII spoke of the Church as “the common Mother of us all.” from good catholic
I'm Scottish, so I can't. Oh well...Thank you. I've thought of running for President. Please vote for me!
Luke 1:28 (WPNT) So upon entering where she was the angel said, “Rejoice, recipient of grace, the Lord is with you; blessed are you among women!”Gabriel said she was "full of Grace". Protestants say no, "kecharitomene" means "most favored". So, which is it? Can we hold you to your answer for about ten minutes?
It's a perfect passive participle; so, it means that she was endowed with grace in the past, with the result continuing in the present (those times being relative to when the angel spoke).Actually, according to Blass and DeBrunner "kecharitomene" would be more properly translated to say Mary is “completely, perfectly, enduringly endowed with grace." But, most favored works too.
Jesus was indeed God and man; however, he was sinless man, because God created him in Mary's womb miraculously. There is no indication that God used an ovum from Mary.I can agree with that however Jesus is both Divine and human. Being human necessitates being born of woman and as such is has both the guilt and punishment of sin, unless of course one is born of a New Eve before the fall. So, we are left with several option, God created God an absurdity, Jesus wasn't human thus the sacrifice was without merit, or Mary was a New Eve without original sin to pass to her Son. Which is it?
I think you mean "attacking her honour", which no-one is doing.Ok, lets say instead, attaching her honor.
The passage says precisely nothing about Mary being, allegedly, free from original sin.This passage is an allegory (as stated) with three pairs of images. On the one hand we have the two sons of Sara a free woman and Agar a bond woman. The progeny of free women are free men however the progeny of a bond woman has the same servitude as their mother. On the other hand, we have two places Mt. Sina where Moses was handed the Law from God and Jerusalem which was free. Likewise, there are two Covenants. The Jews are in bondage to the Law of Moses as Agar was bound. Conversely, Christ born of a woman free of original sin yet according to the flesh is free. Rejoice then says St. Paul you are bon of Jerusalem, free as children of the New Covenant, a free Jerusalem.
Mary is not our adopted mother!!Mary is Mother of Jesus, Son of God. As believers in Jesus Christ, we become adopted sons and daughters of God [John 1:12], thus brothers of Christ through that adoption. Our relationship has now changed, Mary becomes our adopted Mother as well. Allegorically we are free of the former Covenant of Moses, and freemen of the city of Jerusalem, the Catholic Church.
Have you ever won the Bulwer-Lytton prize for bad fiction?Very good, you did answer my questions. Allegorically, however, your post is a bridge of questionable stability constructed of unfounded crumbling sandstone into a swamp where hungry alligators await misfortune which is sure to come.
Good point maybe he wasn't meaning it literal. It must be confusing when one has more than one mother.I wonder if Leo said he was speaking figuratively. ?
--Rich
I don't think I misspelled it, did I?
Mary is our spiritual mother means she nurtures our understanding, our moral, emotional, and cultural life in Christ through her prayers for her spiritual children.
You need to read chapter 12The roman catholic church has replaced God who created the heavens and the earth, with a helpless creature, that needed a Savior herself. And this is blasphemy. For it is ascribing God's work to someone who did NOT do the work. And it is robbing God of the glory that is rightly His.
The rcc didn't make her a near goddess, they made her a full fledged little god that they worship and lean on. An idol really.
John when describing heaven in the book of Revelation, chapters 4 and 5. Never mentions mary sitting on a throne in heaven or interceding for us.
Chapter 4 of the book of Revelation
The Throne in Heaven
4 After this I looked, and there before me was a door standing open in heaven. And the voice I had first heard speaking to me like a trumpet said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after this.” 2 At once I was in the Spirit, and there before me was a throne in heaven with someone sitting on it. 3 And the one who sat there had the appearance of jasper and ruby. A rainbow that shone like an emerald encircled the throne. 4 Surrounding the throne were twenty-four other thrones, and seated on them were twenty-four elders. They were dressed in white and had crowns of gold on their heads. 5 From the throne came flashes of lightning, rumblings and peals of thunder. In front of the throne, seven lamps were blazing. These are the seven spirits of God. 6 Also in front of the throne there was what looked like a sea of glass, clear as crystal.
In the center, around the throne, were four living creatures, and they were covered with eyes, in front and in back. 7 The first living creature was like a lion, the second was like an ox, the third had a face like a man, the fourth was like a flying eagle. 8 Each of the four living creatures had six wings and was covered with eyes all around, even under its wings. Day and night they never stop saying:
“‘Holy, holy, holy
is the Lord God Almighty,’
who was, and is, and is to come.”
9 Whenever the living creatures give glory, honor and thanks to him who sits on the throne and who lives for ever and ever, 10 the twenty-four elders fall down before him who sits on the throne and worship him who lives for ever and ever. They lay their crowns before the throne and say:
11 “You are worthy, our Lord and God,
to receive glory and honor and power,
for you created all things,
and by your will they were created
and have their being.”
I truly believe that they are blinded and deceived by the god of this world. Their Masters follow him of whom Jesus said,The rcc has very little truth in it. Over the centuries, truth has been replaced with lies, and I have a feeling that rc apologists on here realize that. And yet they want us non-rc's to believe what they know is not the truth. Why would you do that to someone?
You need to read chapter 12
JoeT
The institution I'm a member of, the Catholic Church, is not mine in the sense of ownership, its Gods.Your institution was taught a lie, centuries ago. But instead of throwing it out, like they were supposed to.
"it" being the supposed lie, does not exist. The Catholic Church was commissioned by Jesus Christ who ordained that she should be on earth to the end of time.Kept it and spread a lie to everyone else.
To desecrate the Holy Church is sacrilege, she is kyriakon, God's house.The reformation would have never taken place had your institution did what Scripture commanded us to do.
After three woes at the end of protesting, a great sign is seen in heaven, "And the temple of God was opened in heaven: and the ark of his testament was seen in his temple, and there were lightnings, and voices, and an earthquake, and great hail" [Apocalypse 11:19. St. John then revels how this sign manifests itself "And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars [Apocalypse 12:1]. This woman is pregnant with child. A dragon, Satan, stood ready to "devour her son", Jesus Christ. [vs 5] who will rule with an iron had over all the nations of the earth [vs 6].Rc's deliberately construe and misapply chapter 12 of Revelation; to give themselves permission to do something that all throughout Scripture is commanded against. If Revelation 12 as used by the rcc were true, we would be reading elsewhere in Scripture of it being true. But it is not. No where is man ever given permission to worship another human. To do so is idolatry.
No where do we read of anyone ascribing glory to anyone other than God alone. The very first line in Revelation says "The revelation from Jesus Christ" And no where does Jesus tell us to put any human up on a pedestal to be worshiped.
John was directed to pen Revelation as dictated to him. John was given a glimpse of heaven, and at the beginning, described who was sitting on the throne in heaven, every being, worshipping God alone. So if chapter 12 is a reference to mary, why didn't John mention her when he was describing heaven. And who was there. John says NOTHING about mary in the book of Revelation at all.
It is impossible to desecrate the unholy Roman "church" since it is already in a state of desecration. Its sacraments cannot be defiled since they are already an abomination.To desecrate the Holy Church is sacrilege, she is kyriakon, God's house.
This passage does not say that Mary is the Ark of the Covenant. John saw the ark, and he saw the woman. Two separate visions, two separate signs. And the Ark was not a mere container. It prefigured the incarnation of Christ and His salvific work.After three woes at the end of protesting, a great sign is seen in heaven, "And the temple of God was opened in heaven: and the ark of his testament was seen in his temple, and there were lightnings, and voices, and an earthquake, and great hail" [Apocalypse 11:19. St. John then revels how this sign manifests itself "And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars [Apocalypse 12:1]. This woman is pregnant with child. A dragon, Satan, stood ready to "devour her son", Jesus Christ. [vs 5] who will rule with an iron had over all the nations of the earth [vs 6].
Mary is that Ark of the Covenant, in her rests God.
If this is not Mariolatry, I do not know what is. Can you please explain how "Protestantism" wages war with a woman who is no longer among us? Because we do not join you in your worship of her?The Child is Jesus Christ revealed by "the Blood of the Lamb", and the dragon is Protestantism revealed by making war with the woman. Now the dragon was blasphemous and will be destroyed.
The institution I'm a member of, the Catholic Church, is not mine in the sense of ownership, its Gods.
"it" being the supposed lie, does not exist. The Catholic Church was commissioned by Jesus Christ who ordained that she should be on earth to the end of time.
To desecrate the Holy Church is sacrilege, she is kyriakon, God's house.