Did Jesus teach he was GOD himself?

Fred

Well-known member
I would like to comment on your statement, but first...

Did you mean to say Joel 3:5 or some other verse?

Joel 3:5... Because ye have taken my silver and my gold, and have carried into your temples my goodly pleasant things:
Hi,

It is Joel 3:5 in the Septuagint, but in (all?) our English Bibles it is Joel 2:32.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
Which scripture are you referring to? In the Holy Bible there is One God. The Father is God but He is not the Son or the Holy Spirit. The Son is God but He is not the Father or the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God but He is not the Son or the Father. There is one God.
Thirty six (36) scripture which address or refer to Jesus as God, Matt 1:23, Isa 9:6, Luke 7:16, John 1:1, 3, 4, 10, 14, 18, 10:33, 5:18,8: 58, 12;24, 14:9, 17:5, 10, 20:28, Act 20:28, Rom 9:5, 2 Cor 4:4, Col 1:14-16, 2:9, Eph 3:9, Heb 1:1:2-3, 8-12, 3:3, Phi 2:6, 1 Tim 1:1, 3:16, 6:15, Tit 2;13, 2 Pet 1:1, 1 John 5:20, Rev 17:14, 19;16, 22:12-13
Scripture which address or refer to the Holy Spirit as God. Acts 5:3-4, Acts 28:25-27., Acts 28:25-27, Heb 10:15-17, Heb 3:7-11
That is three Gods
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
You failed to highlight where He is called "Lord" in Acts 2:21. YHWH from Joel 3:5 (Septuagint) is applied to Him in this passage.
Lord is Acts2:21 does not mean Jesus is God.
God made Jesus Lord in Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

YHWH is not applied to Jesus unless you have two YHWHs in Acts 2:36
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
So, this is my point on this thread: Did Jesus teach he was GOD himself?

So it doesn't matter what the rest of the Scriptures teach?
Only the "red letters"?

If he did, then we should believe it ... but if he did not, what should we do?

We should believe Scripture.
And Scripture teaches that Jesus is God:

Isa. 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 20:28 Thomas answered [Jesus], “My Lord and my God!

Acts 20:28 Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.

Rom. 9:5 To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.

Phil. 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,

Col. 2:9 For in [Jesus] the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,

Titus 2:13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

Heb. 1:8 But of the Son he says,
“Your throne,
O God, is forever and ever,

2Pet. 1:1 Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained a faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

Yes, I know... You're going to try to ignore all these passages, and try to twist them to make them say something other than they actually mean, because you're more interested in protecting your doctrine than in learning truth.

What about the first Christians after the Bible... Do you think they knew truth, or went into apostacy second the Apostles died?:


The scepter of the majesty of God, even our Lord Jesus Christ, came not in the pomp of arrogance or of pride” (Clement of Rome, 1Clem 16:2)

“... predestined, before time was, to be—to her abiding and unchanging glory—forever united and chosen, through real suffering, by the will of the Father and Jesus Christ our God.” (Ignatius, Eph. 1:0)

The fact is, our God Jesus Christ was conceived by Mary according to God’s dispensation of the seed of David, it is true,..." (Ignatius, Eph. 18:2)

Tral. 7:1 And you will do so if you are not puffed up and cling inseparably to God Jesus Christ, to the bishop, and to the precepts of the Apostles. (Ignatius, Tral. 7:1)

“... the church by the will of Him who willed all things that exist, beloved and illuminated through the faith and love of Jesus Christ our God; […] Heartiest good wishes for unimpaired joy in Jesus Christ our God, to those who are united in flesh and spirit by every commandment of His;” (Ignatius, Rom. 1:0)

Nothing that is seen is good. Our God Jesus Christ certainly is the more clearly seen now that He is in the Father." (Ignatius, Rom. 3:3)

I extol Jesus Christ, the God who has granted you such wisdom. For I have observed that you are thoroughly trained in unshaken faith, being nailed, as it were, to the Cross of the Lord Jesus Christ both in body and in soul,…" (Ignatius, Smyr. 1:1)

and may He grant unto you a lot and portion among His saints, and to us with you, and to all that are under heaven, who shall believe on our Lord and God Jesus Christ and on His Father that raised him from the dead." (Polycarp, Phil. 12:2)

For if you had understood what has been written by the prophets, you would not have denied that He was God, Son of the only, unbegotten, unutterable God.” (Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, 126)

And that Christ being Lord, and God the Son of God, and appearing formerly in power as Man, and Angel, and in the glory of fire as at the bush, so also was manifested at the judgment executed on Sodom,” (Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, 128)

He that hung up the earth in space was Himself hanged up;
He that fixed the heavens was fixed with nails;
He that bore up the earth was borne up on a tree;
the Lord of all was subjected to ignominy in a naked body—

God put to death! the King of Israel slain with Israel’s right hand!” (Melito of Sardis, Part V)

“... in order that to Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Saviour, and King, according to the will of the invisible Father,” (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 1.10.1)

Christ Himself, therefore, together with the Father, is the God of the living, who spake to Moses, and who was also manifested to the fathers.” (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 4.5.2)

"For it was not without divine care that so great a work was accomplished in so brief a space by the Lord, who, though despised as to appearance, was in reality adored, the expiator of sin, the Saviour, the clement, the Divine Word, He that is truly most manifest Deity, ” (Clement of Alexandria, Exhortation to the Heathen, 10)

For God alone is without sin; and the only man without sin is Christ, since Christ is also God.” (Tertullian, Treatise on the Soul, Part 1, 41)

The Logos alone of this God is from God himself; wherefore also the Logos is God, being the substance of God.” (Hippolytus, Refutation of All Heresies, 10.29)
 
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OldShepherd

Well-known member
Lord is Acts2:21 does not mean Jesus is God.
God made Jesus Lord in Acts 2:36 Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.
YHWH is not applied to Jesus unless you have two YHWHs in Acts 2:36
2 Peter 1:1
1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: [του θεου ημων και σωτηρος ημων ιησου χριστου ]
2 Peter 1:11
11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.[του κυριου ημων και σωτηρος ιησου χριστου ]
Titus 2:13
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;[του μεγαλου θεου και σωτηρος ημων ιησου χριστου ]​
If Jesus is not God in 1 Pet1:1 and Tts 2:13 then He is not Lord and Savior in 2 Ptr 1:11. All three vss. have the same grammatical structure. Is Jesus Lord and Savior
Vss. which call Jesus Lord and Savior. Luk_2:11, Php_3:20, 2Pe_1:11, 2Pe_2:20, 2Pe_3:18
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
2 Peter 1:1​
1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ: [του θεου ημων και σωτηρος ημων ιησου χριστου ]​
2 Peter 1:11​
11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.[του κυριου ημων και σωτηρος ιησου χριστου ]​
Titus 2:13​
13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;[του μεγαλου θεου και σωτηρος ημων ιησου χριστου ]​
If Jesus is not God in 1 Pet1:1 and Tts 2:13 then He is not Lord and Savior in 2 Ptr 1:11. All three vss. have the same grammatical structure. Is Jesus Lord and Savior
Vss. which call Jesus Lord and Savior. Luk_2:11, Php_3:20, 2Pe_1:11, 2Pe_2:20, 2Pe_3:18
Your strawman arguments do not hold water Sheppey...God himself says Jesus is his son and Jesus himself said God is his father, therefore Jesus is not God.
Arguing grammar is a waste of time since grammar does not override context.
 

Fred

Well-known member
You are funny.. it says God raised Jesus from the dead...God himself said Jesus is his son. That alone should be enough to stop your foolishness. Your argument is with God.
You ignored the use of YHWH being applied unto the Lord Jesus as kyrios in Acts 2:21 concerning prayer to Him.
God primarily (not exclusively) refers to the Father.

Next time try dealing wit the evicence I supplied rather than hiding from it.
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
Well your life ( HWA ) is NOT a born again one since you have NOT accepted the Real Jesus Christ ( God-Man as per John 1:1+14 ) as your Lord & Savior! Satan has done a good job in deceiving you! The True GOD is a TRINITY ( FSHS )! Thus John 17:3 & 1 John 5:20 do NOT contradict one another because each Divine Person of the True GOD is a true God and that is EXACLY why God the Father calls His Son ( Jesus Christ ) " O God " in Heb.1:8, just after all His created angels WORSHIPED Him ( Jesus Christ ) in Heb.1:6! Angels will NEVER Worship anyone other than God! Case closed!
Being you are not the authority on this, I would advice you to be very cautious about trying to judge me as not being born again, and instead I will point you back again to the clearest words that Jesus ever spoken in the gospels concerning who we are to know as The Only True God and who we are to know as the Christ whom he sent below.


John 17:3 "This is eternal life, that they might know you (he was praying to the Father) The Only True God and Jesus the Christ who you sent".


The above, was spoken by the real authority on this and being Jesus himself told us over and over again that his words were not his own but rather the Father's who sent him and although I am sure that you would love to alter them and do also, they will remain as written and will be in those books that will be opened by God at the GWTJ also.
 

OldShepherd

Well-known member
Your strawman arguments do not hold water Sheppey...God himself says Jesus is his son and Jesus himself said God is his father, therefore Jesus is not God.
I quoted scripture, I added nothing and deleted nothing. Your argument is with the author. When the 1st century new Christians, to whom the NT was initially addressed, read/heard the NT for the first time. They did not have an electronic device which could instantly call up any verse. They did not have a written NT they could not point to another verse and say this verse contradicts that verse. They understood the vss. exactly as written using the grammar rules, conventions they used every day. They didn't have years of indoctrination in various fringe groups. Keeping all that in mind what do you think they understood?
Arguing grammar is a waste of time since grammar does not override context.
Without grammar rules speech would be just so much noise. Back in '55 I recall an English class, the teacher wrote this on the chalk board [I think the term "black board" is now considered racist.] "Woman without her man is a beast." Punctuate this. This sentence says two different things it depends on where you place the comma! Grammar!
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Hi,

It is Joel 3:5 in the Septuagint, but in (all?) our English Bibles it is Joel 2:32.

What is interesting about Joel 2:28-32 is that Jesus himself tells us plainly that it is his Father who makes this promise to pour out His Spirit.

Thus you will know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and there is no one else, and My people will never be put to shame. It will come about after this that I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh.........
Joel 2:27-28

Yeah, Jesus told us twice that the Father said that.

But I'm thinking you don't care. What Jesus said and what his Father said at Joel 2:27 are irrelevant to your Trinity idolatry.
 

Fred

Well-known member
What is interesting about Joel 2:28-32 is that Jesus himself tells us plainly that it is his Father who makes this promise to pour out His Spirit.
And yet both Peter (and Luke who recorded it) teach the Lord Jesus pours out the Spirit (Acts 2:33) within the same context He is "Lord" (YHWH) in Acts 2:21.

So much for your Unitarian heresy.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
And yet both Peter (and Luke who recorded it) teach the Lord Jesus pours out the Spirit (Acts 2:33) within the same context He is "Lord" (YHWH) in Acts 2:21.

So much for your Unitarian heresy.

What does Acts 2:33 say or are you so blind you only see what you want to see? WHOSE promise? The Father's promise. It was the Father who made this promise at Joel 2:27-28. You were told THREE times by Jesus and yet you refuse to hear him. Your blindness is stunning.

Therefore having been exalted to the right hand of God, and having received from the Father the promise of the Holy Spirit Acts 2:33

And behold, I am sending forth the promise of my Father upon you; but you are to stay in the city until you are clothed with power from on high.
Luke 24:49

Gathering them together, he commanded them not to leave Jerusalem, but to wait for what the Father had promised, “Which you heard of from me for John baptized with water, but you will be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.
Acts 1:4-5

this is what was spoken of through the prophet Joel: And it shall be in the last days,’ God says, "‘That I will pour forth of My Spirit on all flesh
Acts 2:17

The Father's Promise

Thus you will know that I am in the midst of Israel, and that I am the LORD your God, and there is no one else, and My people will never be put to shame. It will come about after this that I will pour out My Spirit on all flesh.........
Joel 2:27-28
 
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